Savannah, 15, is the oldest of five. Savannah is known for her courageous story of coming out. A video of her speaking at church about being a lesbian went viral when her microphone was silenced. It became an instant inspiration worldwide. She hopes to spread awareness and create change within religious and LGBTQ intersecting communities. Savannah is a National Youth Ambassador for the Human Rights Campaign. She has spoken at and been involved with LoveLoud, AT&T, and Oasis. Savannah has written articles for both Out magazine and Project Contrast. She has had roles in several documentaries shedding light on the Mormon and LGBTQ intersections, including “Believer,” “Room to Grow” and “Savannah.” Savannah’s future goals are to continue advocating for LGBTQ humans, to find an amazing partner, go to Stanford majoring in Political Science, and to adopt dog babies.
Episode Transcript:
Richie T 0:25
Time for another episode of the cultural Hall it’s Episode Number 367 where we are going to take a little time travel back in the Wayback Machine back to May the seventh of 2017. Maybe you don’t know the significance of that date. But we’ll talk all about it. That’s what this episode is all about here with me is Savannah and her mother Heather, thanks for being here. You guys. Thank you. You guys braved the very early to be here with me in order to record this. Now the voice you heard is Savannah and the tired eyes that you heard was her Mother, as I welcome them here this morning. Savannah May the seventh 2017 tell people about that significance of that date for you?
Savanna 1:10
Okay, I would love to may 7 2017 was the day that my life changed. I came out at church in front of my whole congregation during testimony meaning and while I was coming out and saying that I’m a lesbian, and that God would love me for who I am. And this shouldn’t change the fact that I’m the same kid you knew over the last eight years. They turned my microphone off, and just told me to sit down.
Richie T 1:36
And so let’s listen to that. For those who may not have seen the video when it originally came out on Mormon Wikileaks, which is now a different thing. Or if you haven’t even heard of this situation, let’s play that.
Savanna 1:51
Hi my name is Savanna and I want to share my testimony with you. I believe I am a child of Heavenly Parents. I don’t know if they talk to us, but I feel in my heart that they made me and that they love me.
I believe I was made the way I am. All parts of me by my heavenly parents. They did not mess up when they gave me brown eyes, Or When I was born. They did not mess up when they gave me freckles or when they made me to be gay.
God loves me just this way, because I believe that he loves all his creations. I do not believe he made me. I do believe sorry. I do believe he made me this way on purpose. No part of me is a mistake. I do not choose to be this way. And it was not a fact. I cannot make someone else gay and being around me won’t make anyone else this way. I believe that God wants us to treat each other with kindness. Even if people are different, especially if they’re different. Christ showed us this. I believe that we should just love. I believe I’m good. I try my best to be nice to each other, and stick up for those that are hurting.
I know I’m not a horrible sinner for being who I am. I believe in God who would tell me if I was wrong. I hope someday to go on dates, go to school dances, hold hands, and to go off to college. I hope to find a partner and have a great job. I hope to get married and have a family. I know those dreams and wishes are good and right. I know I can have all of these things as but as a lesbian, and be happy. I believe that if God is there, he knows I’m perfect just the way I am. And will never ask me to live my life alone. Or with someone I trust you and want me to be happy. I want to be happy. I want to love myself and not feel shame for being me.
I asked you…
Richie T 3:51
All right. So you decide that, to come out of church now, you had come out to other folks before this moment in your sacrament meeting. Yes?
Savanna 4:02
I had not come out to anyone in my sacrament but I had come out to my mom and I think my dad before then
Richie T 4:11
and uh, you know, so people would say, Why choose to do it in a sacrament meeting? Why was that important for you to do it that way?
Savanna 4:19
because my sacrament and my ward were people that I’ve trusted. I’ve like I said before, I lived with them for eight years. I’ve grown up with these people and I see them as family, my brothers and sisters and I thought that they would understand being there for me and understanding that I am the same person I have been all these years.
Richie T 4:43
And, and and what was the response like obviously we hear within the video that you know, all of a sudden they turn the microphone off and you’re not able to be heard anymore. But after that, what we didn’t hear is you know, a member of the bishopric gets up and says, you know, God loves all of our children and And all of those things, but what was the response from the rest of the ward or from anyone in the ward as sacrament meeting ends, and then you have an opportunity to speak to them?
Savanna 5:12
There’s probably been only like two or three people that have actually come up to me and said that they accept me for who I am within my ward. If I’m walking down the street, they’ll cross the street just not interact with me. There’s a lot of bad backlash.
Richie T 5:26
Interesting. We did you have anyone that came up to you and was like, not the time and place Savanna, or any sort of that kind of stuff?
Savanna 5:32
All the time. I Hear that, It’s probably that’s probably one of the most comments I’ve heard is, that’s not the time or place you shouldn’t come out then.
Richie T 5:42
Sure. So bringing in you then in the conversation, Heather, she comes to you and says, Hey, I’m thinking about bearing my testimony and coming out as part of it, or is that how it came about?
Heather 5:55
Not really that way. She didn’t feel like it was a coming out. Okay. She said she wanted to bear testimony in sacrament meeting. She wanted to tell everybody that God loved her, as she is all parts of her. And she had written it out in my husband and I kind of went over it with her. And we’re just like, No, no, this is really, this is really touchy. I don’t know if this
Richie T 6:17
is a very bold statement you are about to make here. Sure.
Heather 6:19
Right. And we both talked about it quite a bit. I mean, she had brought it to us months before she actually did it. And it took us that long to kind of say, okay, you know, this is something that we’re gonna allow you to do. Mostly because we wanted her to have the message that we support her, and telling her not to speak is way more harmful for her, than letting her have her voice. And we both went over it. And I mean, at the time, I was already kind of pulling away from the church but my husband was an active member and boys
Richie T 6:50
an active as you said he was
Heather 6:53
an active member and still is. and I’m going over it we both decided that it was very respectful and truthful to her and her God. And that was important. And we felt like that was good for the congregation to hear.
Richie T 7:08
Sure, for sure. So, with that kind of going over, you know, it’s pretty mature sounding for someone that is at the time, 12 years old. Was it edited and kind of written by you and by your husband? Or did she kind of, you know how sometimes like with talks, we’re like, we let the kids and then we kind of come in and go, and we change this maybe here was it that kind of thing? Or was it was a pretty much Savannah,
Heather
That was all her words.
Richie T
Oh, wow. Good for you. You speak better than I do,
Savanna 7:37
don’t know about that. But I’ve already experienced, you’re great at speaking.
Richie T 7:43
So so you get up and you decide to do this thing. I know that other folks that are critical of this message, and I don’t want to necessarily talk a whole bunch about that, but also people that are like, Well, why are we filming this if this wasn’t a you know, a publicity stunt. Trying to make a statement, whatever, whatever, whatever. Why, why are we filming this thing? Do you want to both take a stab at it?
Heather 8:07
Yeah, I mean I i got i think more backlash on that than some everybody thought that I was there filming it but I didn’t have a phone in my hand. I was sitting there listening to her speak next to my family and Savannah can tell you why it was was being filmed. But it was not me.
Richie T 8:24
Yeah, not mom. Okay, so tell us why was it being filmed Savannah?
Savanna 8:28
So as just to restate something that my mom said in, it is what I believed at the time. And it was also a big part of my life, Since it’s a coming out thing for me. My friend that was there that was supporting me every step of my journey was filming. He was like, This is the moment that she’s coming out. This is going to be the most important Moment.
Richie T 8:51
Right, as you said, life defining at the start of this. Yeah.
Savanna 8:56
And that was just the whole story. He didn’t know that It was impolite to film during a congregation. He didn’t know these things. And he was just there trying to support me and be the best friend that he could.
Richie T 9:09
Okay. As you’ve gone back and looked at it, as we were kind of coming into the studio this morning, you said you’ve watched it, you know, just time and time again. And this has been a couple of years, as we mentioned also at the beginning, you know, this, this harkens back to May of 2017. So we’re almost three years if you can believe it past that time. What What have you thought as you’ve gone back and watched it?
Savanna 9:35
Um, I kind of see as a progression. Can you tell me what you mean by that? I can see how my beliefs change. I can see how my views change. And I can tell when I’m 30 years old, I can look back on watching this right now and being like, wow, I can see how I’ve grown since then. And I feel like that’s a very important message for everyone. I can see that I’m beautiful just the way I am. Even though I may say something stupid, we’re just all human and we’re supposed to be imperfect.
Richie T 10:07
I wanted to to ask you and maybe we’ll take a break and come back and do this in the second block. But I want to ask a what has gone on within the last three years since you made the declaration from the pulpit, where you guys stand with the church and and kind of what life is like today. As we revisit this, we go back in the Wayback Machine. We’ll come back and do that in the second block of the cultural Hall.
Richie T 12:27
Here in the second block of the culture Hall if you are not a Patreon subscriber of the cultural Hall encourage you to do so simple and easy to do just go to patreon.com forward slash The cultural Hall. And as simple and easy as making a monthly pledge. It gets deducted automatically and you know that you’re providing great content like this discussion for other people to be able to hear. You can do it at like a $3 level or $5 level or $10 level. You can do it as a one time thing. It’s patreon.com slash the cultural hall. Savannah. What’s life been like in the last Three years? I remember I remember being 12. And I remember being almost 15. And I can tell you that that was a very formative time of my life. So what are you been up to?
Savanna 13:10
Realizing who I am. Um, I’ve come to work with a lot of different organizations like the Human Rights Campaign, I’m, I’m a National Youth Ambassador for them here. I go around the country, supporting their own views, which are bringing political and social rights to all people. So everyone. And I’ll just go around and speak up their voice and share them with my own platform.
Richie T 13:40
So is that a lot of like visiting folks in similar situations like you either LGBTQ plus folks, or or can it be any any sort of human rights is, does that make sense?
Savanna 13:51
I would say it’s more every human rights. go to a bunch of different types of congregations going from LGBTQ plus things to racial. There’s a bunch of different things I’ve gone to.
Richie T 14:03
How did you get involved in that?
Savanna 14:05
Um, they wanted me to go and support and support, support and bring awareness to their message within the social and racial conference. And so I was considered the LGBTQ portion.
Richie T 14:18
Oh, cool. So they came to you. And they said, Hey, we heard about what you did in this meeting. And we, we support you, and would you be willing to come and be a part of this organization? ,
Heather 14:28
Yeah, was a pretty intensive application process.
Richie T 14:33
Tell me about that.
Heather 14:34
It’s a lot of youth around the country apply for it. Um, there’s currently 12 or 13 I think Youth Ambassadors.
Richie T 14:41
Wow. So pretty exclusive. So you just dropped it like, it’s like, meh, so I decided to do this thing. But really, that’s, that’s pretty awesome.
Savanna 14:49
It’s all thanks to Ellen Khan, the Youth Ambassador. What is her? Director?.
I remember we met at a party and she was like, you know what you should do? You should sign up for this and she gave me like a really good word. So yeah, I think that she’s the reason I’m a Youth Ambassador now.
Richie T 15:12
That’s cool. And is it like, do you have like a term limit do you do it for like,
Savanna
yeah, it’s two years, I believe.
Richie T
Cool. So how far into that are you?
Savanna 15:18
I’ve already done one year.
Richie T 15:20
Oh, nice. Halfway through. Yep. You gotta finish strong all the way. Yeah, it’s like a mission.
So what else? Um,
Savanna 15:30
I, my main focus, and my with my platform is to bring in their sexuality to the LGBTQ plus community and religion. I like bringing awareness to the fact that you can be both of these and still be happy like I am. I’m still Mormon. And I feel like my being a lesbian and a Mormon is very, a big part of my personality .And who I am.
Richie T 15:54
So you mentioned that dad who is obviously not here, he’s still active in the church. Are you then still active as well?
Savanna 16:02
Um, I’m considered a non active Mormon. Okay, so I am, I do consider myself a Mormon but I don’t attend church because I don’t feel safe. I’m still living in the same place that I came out okay and I don’t want to go there
Richie T 16:16
so so like within the same congregation it’s like meh its not necessarily a welcome place but maybe if you guys moved you would consider
Savanna 16:24
I would consider it. I’ve gone to church other times with like my grandparents
Richie T 16:30
interesting thing too, so generations you where you bring up your grandparents, how are they with it? Sometimes the older generation kind of goes okay, pat you on the head and says she’ll grow out of it or something like that? Have they been pretty receptive?
Savanna 16:46
I think there’s only like a handful of grandparents that actually accept me. A lot of them burn bridges with me and disown me for being gay and I can kind of see I guess from their point cuz they didn’t already like me. So they’re like, yeah,
Richie T 17:06
it’s easy for them to do it. Yeah, we didn’t like her anyway.
Savanna 17:12
And there’s sometimes there’s like my grandparents, a certain grandpa was just, he was a pillar in my life you someone that I looked up to a lot and he said some very hurtful things, even though he says that it’s hard love, it still really hurts me because I want to just be supported even if you don’t understand.
Richie T 17:31
So what does support look like to you? Or what is support? I guess, in general, because there are some people and I think that where, you know, we’ve heard about this even recently in the news, where people are like, Well, you know, I follow the Prophet and the Prophet says that, you know, we shouldn’t have, like, homosexual marriages, right. And essentially, the doctrine of the church is still that it’s still that way. And so, you know, we’re sort of caught in this in this place, where Well I want to believe and I love everyone and I want to believe and I want to love everyone and so for those that that that have those folks in their life like it’s it’s a little harder than I think sometimes we paint it because they want to be loving, but they also want to you know do what they and I’m air quoting feel is right so how like what does support look like to you?
Savanna 18:25
I feel like just even saying I love you is enough cuz I’ve met a lot of Mormons that still are very very much believers and will still support me and still say, hey, just because you’re a lesbian I’m not gonna shun you. Yeah, I don’t want to walk down the street and feel like I’m being treated differently than the straight girl would be.
Richie T 18:48
Right. It’s interesting. You noted earlier that like you’ll be walking in the neighborhood and people will kind of turn away Why would you guys not move away from a situation like that Is it just not possibility?
Heather 19:01
money yeah.
Richie T 19:02
So it’s a it’s a financial thing because I would think like comfort-ability wise I just be like out.
Heather 19:08
Yeah. And there’s been several times that I’ve just considered Okay, I just need to drop this and leave because this is really hard. And it’s it is still really hard on our whole family. We’re just the queer house in the neighborhood. I also think it’s important to stay for people to see that we exist and running away is not what’s gonna happen all the time.
Richie T 19:28
Yeah, and and also seems like you’re conceding right? Like, oh, that’s fine. You can you can drive us from the neighborhood. So you had mentioned that you kind of on your way out of the church anyway, is that where you found yourself now these three years later,
Heather 19:43
I’m a resigned member. That’s a weird way to describe it. But I mean, I’m, I’m a cultural Mormon. Sure. Yeah. And heritage wise will always be I think that’s a very big identifier for myself, but I have resigned my membership.
Richie T 19:58
So if you Don’t mind and I’m gonna go here anyway. So we’ll see. We’ll see where this goes. With husband being an active member and you being a resigned member, how does that, does that work?
Heather 20:12
It’s fun, therapy. Lots of therapy is right. We have a phenomenal therapist, actually, she’s, she’s an active LDS woman that understands the queer community quite well. And I think that’s a lot of where our issues lie. So we’ve learned a lot of compassion towards one another and that we don’t have to agree, But we have empathy on one another’s opinions and feelings. And if we can just love the feeling that someone is having at word, have sympathy for them on their feelings over an issue, regardless of what that issue is. That’s what’s kept us together.
Richie T 20:47
It’s interesting though. I think that a lot of people hearing that would go wow, I don’t know how that would be able to stay together but you know, he and you and also you Savanna, and Maybe we’ll get into the rest of the household like, like it is just a big house. I guess foundationally of love, right? Yeah. I mean, that’s really what it has to boil down to because you start to get anything else in there and it quickly crumbles. Being the queer house in the neighborhood. It sounds almost irreverent. Putting it that way. But what is that like and and Is that really a stigma or a label that that goes around the neighborhood?
Savanna 21:29
I don’t know if it goes around the neighborhood.
Richie T 21:32
Mom is like, oh, sweetheart. Yeah,
Savanna 21:36
well, it’s actually kind of helpful for me because I want people in our neighborhood to realize that they have a place to go. We always put up a pride flag up in our window. So kids know hey, if you ever need someone like Oh, the Trans Flag one.
Heather 21:51
Trans Day of Remembrance was just recently and I put up a trans flag in our in our neighborhood, or in my yard.
Richie T 21:56
Forgive my ignorance. I don’t know what a trans flag, I mean, obviously, it’s symbolize something but what does a trans flag look like?
Heather 22:03
It’s two light blue stripes, two pink stripes, and a white stripe. Oh, and it’s for our trans members of the community and on the Day of Remembrance specifically remember those that have lost their lives to violence in the previous year, which is a lot. But when I was putting it up this year, a teenager was driving by and stopped their car came out and gave me a hug and said thank you and got back in the car and drove off and that just made it that much more important to me to show that Yeah, we love these kids. And they’re, they’re important and they matter. And just seeing that one person stand up and say I care about you, means the world to me.
Richie T 22:39
And you guys have like you say, a rainbow flag at pride day in those things. Has it been an opportunity for you to to be able to either shelter care for or have conversations with those people that would know that you guys are a safe home? And what is the experience like for each You guys within that?
Savanna 23:02
As a public figure, I get a lot of different requests from different people. So I get to talk to queer people all the time.
Heather 23:12
And people all over Instagram with her, they’ll private message her and just ask for advice on how to come out to their family or, you know, feelings of rejection.
Richie T 23:21
So What do you say? What if I was hitting it? By the way, where can people find you on Instagram?
Savanna 23:24
At the Oh, sorry. It’s at the Savannah sky on Instagram. Okay,
Richie T 23:30
So if I hit you up on Instagram, and I was like, Listen, I’m a queer youth and I’m thinking about, you know, coming out, or I’m sort of feeling like, this is who I am, like, what, what recommendations would you have for someone?
Savanna 23:43
So there’s a couple of things. First, I want to make sure you have a backup plan. Finding a place that you could go to just in case you were gonna get kicked out
Richie T 23:53
Right. So like, if I saw if I said, Hey, Mom, Dad, I’m queer. And they say get out. I need to have a place to go
Savanna 24:01
Yeah, it happens more often than people think. Like there’s so many youth that are homeless right now that are LGBTQ plus and it’s quite saddening to look just like within Utah. So I’m sorry, continuing on.
Richie T 24:15
So backup plan sorry I interrupted you.
Savanna 24:17
No, no, it’s completely fine. So having a backup plan is a great way, maybe easing into it don’t just like straight come out like I did. Because you want to make sure that you understand what your parents viewpoints are who you want to come out to his viewpoints on the lgbtq community.
Richie T 24:32
so what does that look like if I’m coming out slowly? Is it like I’m gig and then I kind of backed out and go, okay, you know, but being serious, you know, if someone’s listening to this, and then they’re asking for your, for your recommendation, like what does that look like to come out slowly?
Savanna 24:48
Coming out slowly, starting with people that you trust the most.
Richie T 24:52
Okay, so it’s the amount of people like maybe one before a whole congregation,
Heather 24:57
dropping hints
Savanna 24:58
Yes, like So important because it helped me build up to coming out to my congregation by coming out to my mom, my dad, because they were overly supportive, which is a privilege. I understand that and not a lot of people have. And I went, Wow, these people showed me love than my rest of my family would. And yes, that could be like a bad thought, because not everyone’s going to be accepting, but it still gives me the confidence. And I feel like that helped me grow as a person more than I ever thought it would.
Richie T 25:29
So what other advice would you give? So coming out slowly, making sure I have a backup plan.
Savanna 25:34
Finding people that you feel comfortable with or you already came out with, and just realizing that you do have a community because if you don’t have a supportive family or supportive friends, you can come to people like me and talk to me on Instagram or find your own local communities like encircle, pride center…
Richie T 25:55
Tell me what incircle is.
Savanna 25:56
Encircle is a house that actually It’s an organization that, Right, right? It’s an organization that supports LGBTQ plus youth and their families within Mormonism.
Richie T 26:07
Yeah, there’s a couple of them, one in Provo, Utah, and one in Salt Lake City.
Savanna 26:12
And they’re making one in St George.
Richie T 26:12
Oh, cool. And that’s Is that like a place where someone can go if they’ve been kicked out? Or what kind of situation is that?
Savanna 26:19
It’s not that type of situation. It’s more of like a center where you can go and hang out with friends, they have food, they can have a place for you to just say if you need a break from everyday life
Heather 26:32
you know, support groups and classes and things like that for parents and youth.
Richie T 26:35
What are those things look like?
Savanna 26:37
They’re really fun. Actually. I’ve gotten into a couple of friendship circles. With the same therapist. My mom and dad are saying
Heather 26:46
It was Weird
Savanna
Yeah, it was a little weird.
Richie T
Why was it weird?
Savanna 26:49
Because she knew everything about me.
Heather 26:52
Wait. You think we talk about you in therapy?
Savanna 26:54
Yeah. But um, it was just really fun because we are growing as like a group. And we all became really close after that. And I think that was really just really it was an interesting experience and they have a bunch of different circles for different identifiers, like whether it’s gender or sexual orientation. We have lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, and intersex all beyond. And that’s really what’s important is we’re having a place for every single
Richie T 27:23
And you mentioned that encircle as sort of deals directly with members of the church or Mormons, right? So how is that different maybe then, like the pride center or something like that.
Savanna 27:35
Um, so the pride center is directly towards just LGBTQ plus youth. It’s a it’s a huge one that supports all of youth, making sure that they’re in a good spot, and it’s also like a center where they can go. While this is while encircle is a place that’s going to bring a place where, oh, sorry, I said place twice here. It’s bringing a platform for people that are within the Mormon church and are gay. And they’re saying, hey, you’re okay just the way you are. Just like kids like me, they can understand that, You’re perfect.
Richie T 28:12
It’s a pretty fascinating subject. I know for a lot of people and it’s funny to me. Just in the thoughts that I’ve had towards homosexuality in the span of my life. I’m almost 40 years old, I’ll be 40 years old before.
Savanna
On you do not look like you’re 40
Richie
Merry Christmas. Thank you very much.
Unless of course you meant that I look older.
Thank you, thank you. I appreciate well, am I glowing?
But it but it’s interesting to me just because Like I can see over the span of my life. Not only my attitudes towards homosexuality, but just like society’s views towards homosexuality. I’ll tell you this sort of as a as a hopefully humorous anecdote, but when I was in Middle School so likely right around your age, I really wanted to take dance classes a lot. And it was funny because I didn’t take dance classes, not because I didn’t want to take them. But because I was really worried that Well, two things truthfully, one that people would think I was gay, and two that taking dance classes would make me gay. Like my comfort. Like, I wish you guys could see how Savannah is looking at me where she’s just like, idiot. But it really was this thing where I was like, This is the action of which to what people like this do. So if I do these actions, this is what it’s going to be. And, and funnily enough, like the transformation came for me. When I served a mission, I had a mission companion who, you know, when he was he had gone to college for a couple years before he served a mission and, and he had taken dance classes and he had taken some theater classes, and he and I got along really well. And I was like, oh, Yeah, but it sounds so ridiculous. But it really was a thing where I was like, Okay, so, but like you like girls, and you did that, right? And he’s like, yeah, like you. I don’t know, it took, I’m a little dim. It took me a little while. And so then when I came back from my mission was able to get into some college classes and took dance classes. Like it was so funny to me, looking back going, I can’t believe this, this is what I thought. Then obviously, through those dance and theater classes, like I met, you know, LGBTQ people and, and I was like, oh, oh, so just people like everyone else who happened to love another man or another woman or, you know, whatever these things are. And, and I think, I think one of the things that you Heather said earlier that that sticks out to me throughout Mormonism is you know, you don’t want to move or it’s important for you to be where you are because we need that. And, and I think that that stands true for all types of members of the church, not just LGBTQ folks, like, whether that’s progressive and liberal, whether it’s conservative, and you know, that kind of thing. Like, what we need to have all the colors of the rainbow if you’ll if you’ll forgive that, within this conversation, in order to really be truly balanced, truly loving and accepting of all people. Just sort of an interesting aside for me to recognize, you know, where I started being like, I don’t understand, I’m afraid that I, that I could be this or what you know, I’m gonna make myself this thing to now just be where it’s like, yeah, you know what really, really Jesus says love everyone, and I think he meant it. I think he I think he was like, yeah, everyone. And then and then we always go but but but and he’s like no, no everyone guys, what do you not missing? I said everyone and we’re like, Yeah, but clearly you don’t mean and he’s like everyone’s still and you’re like but he says everyone. Stop asking
Savanna 32:17
You should not use religion as a hate platform right
Richie T 32:21
Right. I want to take a break real quick I when I come back I want to talk to you guys about one of the changes in the church handbook
Savanna 32:30
I also want to talk to you about the dance. Yeah
Richie T 32:33
123123 we’ll get to that back in the third block of the cultural Hall.
Here in the third block of the cultural Hall and Heather and Savannah you know, I mean Heather may be a resigned member and Savannah may be a non active member but both of them called me out saying hey, you know what, why do you have a third block there’s not a third block of church anymore. Okay, I’ll get it will change this in the future. I have been called to repentance as far as that goes. I’ll go I’ll go with you to your subject first. What do you want to talk about dance wise? Savannah? Um,
Savanna 33:48
I feel like where you get a lot of thoughts like that is actually stereotypes placed on gender roles. Not just like within the LGBTQ plus community and thinking Oh I’ll become gay. I hear that all the time in school, but just saying that guys can’t dance or they’ll become gay, if they do dance is kind of sucky because everyone should be able to do whatever they want and not have to feel like they’re pressured into being manly or feminine, or just being strong or beautiful, right? Stupid. Yeah,
Richie T 34:22
I agree with you. It’s 1,000% stupid.
Savanna 34:24
If you are a boy and you want to dance, go ahead. Or if you’re a woman that wants to fix cars, go ahead.
Heather 34:32
Man. I can change brakes on a car by the way. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I’ve done it before.
Richie T 34:38
50 bucks in the brake pads and you can head out to the parking lot.
Savanna 34:42
six in the morning.
Heather 34:45
Fixing your Brakes.
Richie T 34:46
That’s why I actually brought you down here.
So I want to bring up this because I thought this was interesting and It’s funny to me because I instantly thought of you guys, do you know what I’m where I’m going with this? So there is that there is the change in the handbook that came out a couple months ago. And this is from it so people want to know where I’m citing it’s section 21 dot five dot one, attendance at church meetings. And I’ll read it just to give it the whole thing underneath the bold and then get to the part where I thought of you guys but it says attendance at church meetings, the Savior taught that his disciples should love their neighbors and be no more strangers no more be strangers and foreigners. But fellow citizens with the saints the Savior also taught that church members are not to cast anyone out from public meetings which are held before the world. All are welcome to attend sacrament meetings other Sunday meetings and social events of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Presiding Officer is responsible to ensure that all who attend are respectful of the sacred setting. And then this is the part where I thought of you guys, Those who attend should avoid disruptions or distractions contrary to worship or other purposes of the meeting. All age and behavior requirements of different church meetings and events should be respected. That requires refraining from overt romantic behavior, which I have to just stop real quick
Heather
No Back Scratching allowed.
Richie T
I mean, back scratching, that’s where we start to get a gray area. Everyone has been to that Ward where it’s the newlywed couple in Provo or you know something where it’s just like, guys seriously, I don’t know what’s going on over there. But I’m pretty sure that’s overt and not appropriate anyway, requires refraining from overt romantic behavior from dress or grooming that causes distraction. And then this is where I thought of you guys. It also precludes making political statements or speaking of sexual orientation or other personal characteristics in a way that detracts from meetings focused on the Savior. I just thought that was interesting. Did you guys know about that change or people brought that up to you?
Savanna 37:05
Oh yeah, I got a couple things first if you’re going to start off with saying that you love one love one another and you love everyone actually love everyone
Richie T 37:16
so you don’t feel like the church does?
Savanna
Oh hundred percent
Richie T
Hundred percent not?
Savanna 37:21
yeah I feel like the leaders go out of their way to make it known that they don’t want people to accept the LGBTQ plus community
Richie T 37:29
but so when you say leaders are you talking about like prophet and apostles are you talking like bishop on a congregational level?
Savanna 37:34
Specifically the apostles Okay, um, but going continuing on downwards um I feel like a couple of things were made strictly for me, because when I came out I was wearing a suit and tie
Richie T 37:51
by the way classy red tide. Oh, thank you. I didn’t complement you on that.
Savanna 37:55
a lot of people. It was for my Trump costume and then I was looking at the comments. When it first came out, and someone said that Trump wants his tie back, I was like, Oh, that’s pretty true. Um, but going on, I also am a little confused because if this was based around me, I wasn’t making a political statement. Yes, I was bringing up sexual orientation, but I wasn’t detracting from the Savior. I was building up and saying that God would love me for who I am. And this is my belief. This is where my spirit is. And that’s what my testimony means to me. That God would love me and Christ loves everyone.
Richie T 38:38
And again, I think it goes back to where, you know, you have to know that within the church that there are thousands who love LGBTQ folks. Yes, right. I mean, it’s not like, Mormons! We hate anything, you know, queer, whatever, that weird. That word for whatever reason when I say it, like I like that. All right, are we okay? We’re good.
Savanna 39:03
It’s also that’s like really important because you can see it from both sides. You don’t want just one side saying that, oh, this people is bad. And oh, this person is bad. saying like, oh, all Mormons are bad or all LGBT plus people are bad, right?
Richie T 39:19
I mean, let’s just be honest with each other and both sides. There are some really jerky, LGBTQ folks, right and some really jerky members of the church. Like we can, We can all own that right?
Savanna 39:29
right, there’s always that one person
Richie T 39:30
No one’s got the market on jerks. We’ve all got it.
Heather 39:34
But there’s some amazing LDS people that love the queer community
Savanna 39:41
There are some amazing people that are LDS and queer.
Heather 39:45
We’ve come across all people on the spectrum, if you will.
Richie T 39:49
Is it a little flattering now that there’s this change in the in the guidelines that I mean, it doesn’t say speaking of sexual orientation, because This event on May 7 2017. But I mean, it could very well be read that you are part of the reason why that was changed. In a way is that at least like, Oh, my voice is getting heard or I’m getting recognized that you can take away from that, or is it? Or how do you feel about it?
Savanna 40:15
That’s actually like a great way of putting it. I feel like it gives me a place and it tells me Hey, you’re actually impacting people. You’re able to see yourself in your church, you’re able to see yourself within the LGBTQ plus community. And you’re able to see that you matter. Cuz every single time that I bring up this topic, people will say, Oh, you’re so brave. Oh, you did a great thing. And that’s something that every human looks forward is to validation and community.
Richie T 40:56
Do you want to go?
Heather 40:57
To me, it felt like a little bit of a jab in the heart twisting of a knife. Like they got the wrong message here. Like from all of this happening and all the fall out after. could they not see how much they hurt her or her others like her by doing what they did and they could have come away so much better, but it feels like they’re making the wrong type of stand.
Richie T 41:26
Is it a place that you want to be a part of Savannah?
Savanna 41:30
The Mormon church? Um, I
Richie T 41:33
Because I know a lot of LGBT LGBTQ folk who who really love it right know the know the truthfulness of it, have a testimony of it. Know that it’s the place they should be and in, you know, as part of it then kind of struggled their way through it and other people who were like, Listen, if they wanted me they do better to try and keep me Where do you land in all that?
Savanna 41:57
Um, I have a little bit of mixed feelings towards the The topic, um, I really enjoy the doctrine and I like how they’re saying that you should love everyone for who they are. Yes, I feel like they should fix some things before I could ever like consider going back like how their, their viewpoints on LGBTQ plus people and their sexism, I feel like is a huge thing that they need to work on. And if we’re able to make that place where everyone feels accepted, I feel like that would be more of a true church than what Mormonism is right now.
Richie T 42:30
Do you feel like it’s getting better?
Savanna 42:32
Slowly…really really slowly
Richie T 42:34
So You recognize that there are there, isn’t it? It is getting better but sort of glacially slow.
Savanna 42:42
Yeah. There there are some little wins like the celibacy one, and where they’re able to take away the children of gay parents….
Richie T 42:52
the exclusion.
Savanna 42:53
Yeah, they’re allowed to participate in saving ordinances now, and I think that was even though it’s very small. It’s still a win. It’s a big thing for the church to make that step.
Richie T 43:06
It’s something that it the discussion is clearly not closed on, you know, always evolving. People that are listening to this. Whether they agree with you or not, what would you hope that they take away from the conversation that we’ve had and the example of what you’re doing with your life? Like what do you hope people get from you?
Savanna 43:32
I want people to know that even if we have different opinions, and we may not believe the same thing, I accept, and I love and I understand what you’re going through. And no matter what, you are perfect, just the way you are. And I just want you to know that even if you don’t like me, I like you, I love Every single person even if you are that person in Mormon or LGBTQ plus community I going Hey, she’s just a child.
Richie T 44:04
Is there a unique voice that you think that you have being a younger person that may be an older person who was LGBTQ and saying the same things?
Yeah. Is there a difference between you and maybe that person?
Savanna 44:18
I? There might be Yes, difference in age. But if we’re still getting out a point, either way, it’s still important. Yes, I can have my own platform because I am a youth. And I want to support not only older LGBTQ plus people, but also youth my age that are LGBTQ plus. So yes, that gives me more of a outreach but also having someone that’s older to support LGBTQ plus youth and future LGBTQ youth is just the same impact. Like Miles McKenna YouTuber. He maybe 24 but he still is a bigger role model for LGBTQ plus youth that are younger than 22.
Richie T 45:03
Any parent or sibling of someone who’s LGBTQ who has not yet come out what sort of recommendations would you give to them when that member of the church and their loved one comes to them and says, Hey, you know what, here’s the thing I need to tell you.
Savanna 45:19
Make sure you understand how they feel about their coming out. If they are excited, be excited for them. If they’re being, a little bit mellow about it, like they’re unsure how you’re going to react. Make sure you have a mellow reaction because you don’t want to over exert the person because it might be a hard time for them. Another one is even if you don’t understand what your child is going through, or your friend is going through, supporting them is your best way to go. And yeah, yeah, you just don’t have to understand you could just be there for them.
Richie T 45:54
And being there for them is just talking to them, asking them questions. How can we best show support?
Savanna 45:59
Asking questions is great because you can build up your own knowledge on the community. You can also just say that yes, like I said before, just saying I love you, I support you for who you are. You are beautiful. That is so powerful to hear. Hearing, I’m proud of you is my favorite words. Because I own not only from my parents from random people from my family, they make me feel like this is why I’m doing stuff. This is why I’m doing what I am. Because I’m making a difference for those people that can’t share their voice right now.
Richie T 46:36
You’re halfway through your HRC ambassadorship. So you got one more year that what, what else does the future hold for you? As you look five years from now, what do you hope that you? You have within that five years?
Savanna 46:52
I want to bring awareness to the prevalence of sexual survivors within the LGBTQ plus community. What does that mean? Unpack that
Heather 47:00
Sexual Assault Survivors
Savanna 47:00
Yeah sexual assault survivors.
Richie T 47:04
Explain what that is exactly.
Savanna 47:07
So it’s where some, let me build up to where I want to do this, As a person that was sexually assaulted when I was eight years old. I feel like people will see this as Why I am a Lesbian
Richie T 47:21
Right like that happened. So of course she’s a lesbian, which is false linking but people make that delineation all the time.
Savanna 47:26
Yeah. And by also having a woman who raped me, it makes me feel less validated because they saying that, hey, you should have died instead of let your chastity be taken as what my Bishop said before I got baptized. And that’s just so hard because I realized I’m not the only one in this situation. I’ve talked to multiple, many, so many different types of people within the LGBTQ community that I get turned down or overlooked, that we’re sexual assault victims.
Richie T 48:05
So what? How will you shed a light on that? What How do you plan to bring attention to that? And
Savanna 48:12
I’m, I’m still working on the process for that. I’m working with a lot of the organizations within Utah trying to figure out what’s the best approach for creating this because it’s a very, very hard topic sure to bring up for a lot of people, But it’s something that I’m going to progressively do within the next like year.
Richie T 48:32
Cool. Yeah. Anything else? Yeah. You Drive within the next five years.
Heather 48:37
OOOH
Richie T 48:41
Mom says no, apparently not. Never. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to bring up.
Savanna 48:46
Another one is so I’m currently in high school. I want to bring up that kids are bullied in school a lot more and a lot of school administration doesn’t help, and suicide rates are going So high up within school, we’ve already had two students within my school within the last, like couple of months. . Yeah, it’s
Richie T 49:11
Sorry
Savanna
Its rough
Richie T
And it’s all types. I mean, that’s not just lbg LGBT, that’s also like social media bullying. It’s a bullying, bullying because kids are terrible bullying, all kinds of stuff.
Savanna 49:21
When I was in seventh grade, I had to leave my school because I was so profusely bullied both verbally and physically. And I was even hit in front of a teacher and called trigger faggot in front of all of these people. And nobody did anything. So I’m like, I want to be able to see students that are getting hurt, physically, verbally, mentally, anything they are seen and looked after by administration.
Richie T 49:56
That’s a lot. A lot for Anyone
Savanna 50:01
oh yeah, it’s 100% a lot.
Richie T 50:03
But if they’re I feel like if there’s someone who can do it, I feel like that’s something that you’re equal to right? You don’t see a challenge and back down from it. You say all right challenge I got this. Let’s figure a way through it. Mom, what about for you five years, if we’re meeting back here and doing this in five years What? How do you think this will be with with her with you? Where do you Where do you project that out?
Savanna
I’ll be out of high school
Heather 50:25
That’s crazy l. I know Savannah would be out of high school and she’s one intelligent child. Yeah. And I’m super proud of her. She’s got straight A’s she wants to be a civil rights attorney, and eventually move up to politics and stuff in that. She wants to run for President. And I have zero doubts in my mind that she can she’s right on track for that. And for myself in five years and still gonna be at home watching babies.
Richie T 50:57
There you go and making a difference, as far as that goes, because I know that that’s not an easy road to hoe at all. But I know, one of the things that you’ve mentioned is that you, and your home is a place that’s safe for everyone and such a vital role for every community to have a place that they know, Hey, you know what, I go to that home, And there’s no judgment. It’s a judgment free zone. It’s
Savanna 51:20
a safe place to be.
Heather 51:22
Yeah.
Richie T 51:24
Is there anything that you guys wanted to talk about that we have not gotten to? Anything? You feel like, oh, but definitely, we need to address this or there’s this thing? No, I’m getting. I’m getting the raised eyebrows from Savannah.
Savanna 51:39
And I’m trying to think, I don’t know. I think I’m good. I think we hit everything.
Richie T 51:44
Well, then in that case, there are three questions that we ask everyone that step into the cultural Hall. And I’ll ask them of you guys right now. The first one, based on discussion that we’ve had. The first question is, do you have a calling right now and if so does it We know that you guys don’t attend currently. So that would not be apparent. But the second question does apply. If you could pick a calling for yourself either one that exists or make one up within the church, what would you pick?
Savanna 52:12
Make one up.
Richie T 52:15
That’s my favorite because I, I think about the ones I’d make up all the time,
Heather 52:19
social outreach..
Savanna 52:22
A woman that could get the Priesthood
Richie T 52:24
Okay. All right, we’re going there. You just opened a whole other can of worms at the end of an episode. And then finally, and you guys can interpret this question, however you’d like. And I’d like Heather, I’d like you to go first. But what is your favorite part of your faith? however you define your faith, what is your favorite part of your faith?
Heather 52:48
That I define that for myself, that nobody else gets to tell me what, what is real or what to believe that I can reach inside of myself and pull out what my faith means to me and what my faith is and what to have faith in
Richie T 53:01
I like, I like that. All right. That means the final question to you then what’s your favorite part of your faith? Savannah?
Savanna
Oh, gosh,that’s such a hard question.
Richie T
That’s why I save it for the end.
Savanna 53:14
Even though that my core beliefs are around the Mormon Church, I think building myself up, and being able to understand that as a person, everyone has their own beliefs. And just because mine are different than someone else’s, doesn’t mean we’re any less valid.
Richie T 53:36
I’ll take it. We hope that this episode has nourished and strengthen your body that if you’re not healthy enough to listen, this week, you’ll be healthy enough to listen next week, and that when the time comes, you’ll be able to travel home in safety. In the meantime, we’ll be saving a seat for you on the back row of the cultural Hall.
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