A friend on another board has just told some of us that she is getting divorced. It does not seem that the divorce is her idea, but her husband’s. He isn’t willing to remain married to a post-Mormon. I reacted very strongly to the news. I cried a little. I hugged my husband a lot. I felt like we’d failed her somehow.
Losing your faith is tough. Being married to someone who has lost his/her faith is tough. Change is tough. And yet, people change. I know that when people marry in the temple they are assuming that the marriage is eternal. But that doesn’t mean that the thoughts, ideas, opinions, and yes, beliefs of the person you marry are eternally fixed at the point in time when you each say “Yes.”
I was struck recently by a comment Kevin Barney made in an “I don’t know and neither do you” tangent on By Common Consent: “We all, every one of us, walk by faith.” If you can believe that God and Jesus appeared as physically embodied beings to a semi-literate fourteen year-old in upstate New York; if you can believe that said fourteen year-old produced a work of scripture by reading the words on a stone in his hat; if you can believe that the illegitimate son of a carpenter and his teen-aged bride rose from the dead three days after being executed by the Romans ca. 30 CE; then why can’t you believe that even if your spouse doesn’t believe all those things, somehow, it can still all work out? You can believe all these implausible things, but you can’t believe in the person you married.
That’s faithless.
Stories like that just tear me up. I really hope the best for your friend.
According to my wife, the RS president in our old ward (who was fantastic, I must say) once said in a lesson that a spouse’s apostasy is not a sufficient justification for divorce. I thought that was a pretty bold (and commendable) thing to say, especially in Utah Valley.
Ann, I’ve never seen it articulated so well. Great insight.
Seriously, Ann - THANK YOU for saying this, in just the way you said it. I was very thrown by the news of this particular marriage breaking up - and extremely disappointed in the spouse doing the breaking. After ALL the non-believing spouse has done, after all they’ve been through - yeah, let’s throw it away over an effing face buried in a hat. To say I’m really angry about it would understate things considerably. And the way both families are ganging up on “The Evil Apostate” is just reprehensible.
Ugh, I just can’t be nice about this right now.
I will just say that I’m glad you and your DH didn’t go this route.
I simply could not agree more with everything you said here. I also know the person you’re referring to, and based on what a wonderful, smart, funny, and caring woman she is, my only response is that her husband must be totally batsh*# insane if he’s walking away from their marriage just because she no longer believes in the LDS church.
I rarely feel any anger towards the church these days, but I can tell you that if my change in beliefs had broken up my family, I would still be over on RfM right now ranting and raving with the best of them.
I don’t know the specifics on this case. I agree that your spouse leaving the church doesn’t automatically means you divorce. At the same time, it can put a serious strain, and it’s not inconciveable that in some cases divorce would be the best option.
I’m with Carlos on this one. I also know of cases where it was the non-believing one who left.
“You can believe all these implausible things, but you can’t believe in the person you married.
That’s faithless”
There’s no correlation between having faith certain events happened and staying with your spouse when a huge chasm has come between the two of you. You can love someone and understand their views have changed. That doesn’t mean you can continue your relationship in the same way.
When relationships tear apart, there are 3 things that are often the source:
-Finances (a spender and a saver,etc.)
-Children (to have or not to have, discipline methods,etc.)
-Religion (believer,non-believer, different beliefs,etc.)
When people do not share similar views on those 3 things, it is challenging to keep a relationship going.
It seems incredibly unfair to expect someone must stay with someone else who no longer shares their fundamental beliefs about the very reason and purpose of this life not to mention eternity. It also doesn’t mean they should be expected to leave either. It’s a choice each person has to make for themselves.
People do change and sometimes that change is insurmountable.
Divorce is never easy and no one but the 2 people inside a marriage know what their relationship can bear and what it can’t. Everyone on the sidelines should reserve judgment and M.Y.O.B. unless abuse is going on. It takes some cajones to deign to pass judgment on that husband. How about some empathy for both spouses?
And to commenter #1, church leaders have told people a lot of things are not justification for divorce. In some cases, and I know this first-hand, there have been serious consequences as a result which could have been avoided. People should not base their decisions to divorce or to marry based on what others say but on what their experience, conscience, and prayers dictate.
If you can’t live with someone you love because they have changed their religious beliefs to no longer align perfectly with your own, and the church to which you belong supports you in your decision to divorce your no-longer-believing spouse, then you are a member of a very unhealthy organization. I won’t use the “c” word to describe it, but I am tempted. The Brethren, if they had an ounce of compassion among them, would come out and strongly admonish members of the church to love their spouses no matter what their religious beliefs or activity level in the church. That they have not done this (despite repeated requests and an obvious need to do so) speaks volumes about their ethics, in my opinion.
I support Observer’s comments above. While I’m sure that those who are personally known to the woman in question are outraged that her husband would do something like this over an issue of faith, I think it is more a pitiable situation for both parties. As the spouse of a member of the church who is struggling with his faith right now, I’m sure that I at some point have felt some of the same issues that this husband has felt. I feel as deeply for his loss as I do for hers.
I really didn’t want this to become about the specific marriage. As a once-divorced person, I certainly understand that the reasons for ending a marriage are complex and varied. As Tolstoy said, “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
Former and disaffected members are sometimes quick to blame the church for these situations. That was also not my intent. While I know people who have had bishops advise divorce, I think that is usually not the case. Strong statements in favor of sticking with an otherwise good marriage when one spouse leaves are probably not forthcoming, mostly because the church’s support of marriage is the vague “ordained of God one man one woman” variety, with very little in the way of specifics beyond. I do remember a statement by Jeff Holland once, that to interfere with a marriage is to tread on holy ground. That’s a statement that goes both ways.
As far as “pitiable” goes: pity is cheap. It benefits nobody, whether directed out to another or in toward ourselves.
As far as I know, even when I was at my most bitter and cynical about the church, my husband never thought of divorcing me. I asked him once why he stayed with me. He said, “Because we have an eternal marriage, and I believe everything will work out. Maybe in a way that neither of us expect.” That’s faith.
Last year, at Sunstone, there was a session where three couples spoke about being “unequally yoked”– in each case one spouse had gone through a period of extreme doubt while the other stayed active and believing. One striking thing about that session was that all of the couples had experienced a shift in the level of belief in the church for both partners over time. And Ann’s a good example of that. Seems to me that giving things time is a good idea, and realizing that people can change, again,is also a good idea. I think that if either spouse is constantly ridiculing the other’s beliefs, rather than being respectful, that might be a reason to eventually divorce.
“You can believe all these implausible things, but you can’t believe in the person you married.”
Ungewiss said: Ann, I’ve never seen it articulated so well. Great insight.
Ditto that! I’m going to remember that one.
Great post Ann. Mutual respect and love. That’s what it’s about. When I was at my most confused, most angry, most upset, my husband stuck by me. He loved me, he supported me. He continued to tell me what HE thought, continued to pray that I would make progress, continued to hold out for what he thought was right - but he also understood my confusion, and supported me, and dried my tears. He didn’t fight with me or berate me for my confusion. He showed me unconditional love. He behaved in a Christ-like way, and showed Christ-like love.
He didn’t judge me, or express his disappointment, or tell me about all the ways I was failing our original commitment to each other.
And without his support, and love, and example, I would not be where I am now - starting to pick the pieces of my faith back up.
Sue,
Very well said. I’d say the thing I am most profoundly grateful for in my life right now is the unconditional love and support my wife has showed me throughout my crisis of faith. It was (and to some extent still is) a difficult, turbulent, and emotional time. But through it all, I never doubted her love for me or her commitment to our marriage and family. As we come out the other side of the whole experience, we don’t share exactly the same religious beliefs like we did 5 or 10 years ago, but I’d say our relationship is stronger than it has ever been in our 18+ years of marriage.
Anyway, this is obviously something I feel strongly about, which maybe explains the sort of emotional and knee-jerky tone of my earlier comment.
Equality: RIGHT ON!
the church hasn’t (to my knowledge) drawn much (any?) distinction between the person seeking a divorce and the other spouse, often resisting, wanting to preserve the relationship.
Definately a double-edged sword.
Wonderful post, Ann! Thank you so much. The more I hear of him, the more I think you have a great husband–very wise. I agree: if you believe the marriage is a eternal, you will find a way to make it so. You’re right–it is faithless to leave the marriage–it’s a lack of faith in the sealing, a lack of faith in the endowment, a lack of faith in God’s love and mercy.
Paula said: “I think that if either spouse is constantly ridiculing the other’s beliefs, rather than being respectful, that might be a reason to eventually divorce.”
Yes, but that is a problem of respect and not of belief or unbelief.
Observer said: “There’s no correlation between having faith certain events happened and staying with your spouse when a huge chasm has come between the two of you.”
When we say that we have “faith in those events”, a whole host of other beliefs follow, don’t they? Faith in those events leads to my belief in the power of the Atonement to cleanse us from all sin, a belief that our weaknesses can become our strengths if we call upon the Lord, a belief that God honors those who honor their covenants, a belief in 1 Cor. 7:14, a belief that God will provide a way for me to fulfill the commandments which He has given me (like cleave unto my husband and none other, temple covenants, et al). Doesn’t it you? If I were to divorce my husband over his disbelief, I would be saying all these other beliefs were (at best) meaningless. It would show a lack of faith in the power of the very gospel I believe guides my life.
Marriages between those of different faiths have a higher divorce rate than other marriages. In fact, I believe (and I could be completely wrong, no surprise there), that it is a fairly good predictor of whether a marriage will be successful or not. That being said, I don’t think it is right to make generalizations and assumptions about other people’s marriages and what the cause of divorce was. It reminds me of story that Plutarch wrote about in his Lives. One of the Roman Senators was getting divorced from his wife and everyone was puzzled at why he would divorce such a wonderful woman. He pointed to his sandal and asked if it was a good sandal. People would agree that it was in fact a good sandal. The senator would reply that it looked good, but only he knew where it pinched him in the foot when he walked.
Equality, as far as the Church not speaking out against divorcing a spouse who has left the faith, I believe that the General Authorities, such as James E. Faust in a recent Ensign article, have made it clear that their position is that divorce is only justified in certain situations (such as adultery or abuse). The position of the Church appears to me to be that a marriage should be saved if possible. The fact that they don’t list every single justification that people give for divorce and speak out against it doesn’t equate to implicit acceptance of the justification.
Bill would throw me out on the spot if he thought I was leaving the church. What a jerk, huh???
I struggled for the longest time to justify my life and beliefs to Mormonism. I traveled the ‘third way’ despite the stress and dishonesty it made me feel. I suffered from regular nervous twitches that plagued me: I couldn’t deal with all the stress from regular work and family commitments. I was doing a lot of things poorly and regularly feeling guilty for not believing the ‘right’ things even though some of those beliefs were repugnant to me.
A little over a month ago, I realized I didn’t accept the fact that I was a liability to my children and my family because I didn’t believe what people thought. I quit.
I don’t twitch anymore - I didn’t realize how much I was torn up over the issue, but I feel unbelievably good about myself. I seem to deal with stress better - not miraculously so - but still significantly better. My children have noticed, and that makes me feel good not to be the ‘big bad dad’ all the time. I think my wife has noticed, but here is the kicker, she hasn’t expressed her satisfaction.
I don’t expect her to run away from her beliefs because it turns out to be the right thing for me to do. I see her faith in the church collide with some tangible good that (at least on one level) contradicts the usual tenant that the church will facilitate greater happiness.
We are not on the road to divorce, far from it, but it has been a lonely experience not able to openly share satisfaction at a good decision finally arrived. It is worse because I am used to always sharing everything with her: the person that means the most to me.
I feel that she is torn because to accept or to support my decision she is necessarily being unfaithful to the church. It hurts that her faithfulness is to the church instead of me; however, I realize that she was clear on this issue when we married years ago. It hurts to have that realization 10 years on.
This, I guess, is the meaning of being unequally yoked.
Good for you, Johny Quest. If one looks at the situation rationally, chances are that you will be a better father without Mormonism.
For starters, you can be open and honest with your children while most brick and mortar Mormons are subject to irrational taboos. You can abandon the racist, sexist and intolerant aspects of our culture and theology without fearing to embarrass the brethren.
You can teach your children that non-Mormons are just as good as Mormons. You can protect your children from sex abusers at church including church leaders. You can properly educate your children about sex, which will lead to more respect for women and reduce the chance of self-destructive behavior.
No more suicide over masturbation or homosexuality.
No more domination of women.
No more fear and suspicion of people who are not Mormons.
When we were Mormons, the needs of the church constrained our parental potential by demanding that we follow demonstrably false advice by authorities. Now we can give our best to our children. It’s great to be free. Lots of luck, Johny!
Johnny Q, really enjoyed your comments in #18. The fact that you recognized immediate returns following disengagement is not surprising. It will take your wife and family longer to get used to the idea, but continued open communication, tons of patience, and the inexorable march of time will no doubt lesson the feeling of being unequally yoked.
I try to follow the example of Adam. Adam and Eve were the first married couple, so they are the prime examples of what to do when one partner has a crisis of faith. Eve ate the fruit and was to be cast out from the garden, which would cause the two to be separated. What did righteous Adam do? He certainly didn’t say, “Well, she’s no good and if I go with her she’ll drag me down, too. I’ll stay in the garden and the Lord will provide me with another, better wife!” Instead, he did what needed to be done that the two could remain together.
In my own temple marriage, I look at my wife as “the key to my exaltation.” I, in turn, am the “key to her exaltation.” Since I really want to be exalted, there’s no way I’m going to let that key get away from me, if I can help it. Let her have whatever crisis of faith she may, even to removing herself from the church, I remain committed to her to the end until I enter my exaltation with her or until the Lord himself releases me from the cord that binds me to her. That’s how I view my own marriage and I believe this is the way that Adam viewed his marriage, too.
My husband recently changed his LDS beliefs and was baptized into another faith. We have been married for 4 years, in the temple, and had one child (one on the way.) The turn of events and our attitudes toward each other nearly ripped our family apart. We sought counseling, and any help we could. It took some time, but after I read The Peacegiver by James Ferrell, I finally brought myself to forgive him for hurting and disappointing me. That is all it took. The power of forgiveness is amazing. Trust and respect and love are growing and healing our marriage. I never thought I would have to deal with this trial, but I know that God doesn’t want families to be ripped apart. We both remain strong in our faiths and have moved on together despite our differences. I hope others can do the same- though I understand it can be difficult.
I have become increasingly disaffected from the church for awhile now. It’s been at least a year and a half since I’ve had a solid testimony of the church. Some things have happened and now I’m not even sure I believe in God. I pray and I get *no* answers. I always got answers before, and I’m as righteous or -un as I’ve always been, so to me, either God’s not talking to me (because I’m doubting? That seems a little harsh) or He’s not real.
My husband knows I’ve been struggling. I mostly go to church, but any excuse to not go, I take it. Last week I was at my parents’ house so I didn’t go - to their Methodist church either - and dh told the new older sister missionary that I was “inactive.” I’m kind of mad at him about it - I haven’t ever said that and I think I should get to decide on that label. How do you know if you’re inactive? (Hmmm, unbelief, not wanting to go to church . . . maybe I’m on to something here.)
My husband isn’t a great help. I don’t think he’d leave me over it but it’s not like he’s trying to understand or help me, either. I wonder if he even cares, really. I dunno.
This one struck a tender chord with me. I’m at the opposite end of the viewpoint of some.
My wife has been inactive for about 8 years now. She’s been a YW, Primary and RS president. Done many great things. Helped many people. She really was sweet, loving and sometimes very intent.
The only thing we ever really argued about was her complaining about members, usually on the way home from church. It usually stemmed from her perception that members should be perfect. Yet she didn’t expect that from nonmembers and accepted them. Most times I just listened but sometimes I argued. In hindsight I should have just shut up and not said anything. Her biggest complaint was the sisters. Her last calling was the gospel essentials teacher. She drifted off into horses and like librarian, found reasons to miss church. She decided to start working and then bought a horse. Stopped praying, with me or anyone. When my oldest girl started getting into big trouble, my wife blamed the church. When they split the ward, she said they were crazy. When they’d call a new bishop she’d say he was a fruitcake. The comments seemed endless and eternal. After awhile I just wouldn’t respond at all. No fight in me. Soon she wouldn’t come to church or even FHE. If she wasn’t riding she was working. I look back and read my journal on those times and it was a nightmare. Not only did she drop the church, she dropped us as a family. I can’t tell you how much she’s been missed.
I can’t remember how many times before all this that I’d had to counsel women with inactive or nonmember husbands to hang tough and follow their lead and to just love them. Should I now follow my wife’s lead? Does the same apply for both sexes?
When you have had many strong witnesses of the validity of the church it’s not an easy thing to watch her slip away. Although I would go with her and support her on some of her competitive rides, my heart wanted to be at church. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ. I’d really miss sacrament meeting and priesthood. I would attend some of her rides every year but she wanted me to help on all of them.
She’s a great rider in competitive trail riding, one of the top in the nation. She’s a great trainer, too. Yet it has taken her away from us as a family and far from the church. She complains that the church pulls the family away from her. Perhaps it does. But where she has gone, I don’t want to go. I help, I contribute, but it’s not where I want to be.
Things are not as simple as this though.
Just prior to all of this beginning to happen she had a hysterectomy. Within a couple of years her hormones completely changed. She became quick to anger (explode), slow to love, hated to be touched and her libido completely disappeared. Needless to say our relationship has not been enhanced by these changes and I’m dieing from the lack of intimacy….and I mean dieing.
But it doesn’t end there.
I make pretty good money, close to 7 figures for each of the last eight years. During this time she has purchased five expensive horse trailers (the last one cost over $110G), 16 horses, and 3 dually trucks in her pursuit of a national championship (which she did obtain). At first it was a little matter, but no longer since my income has fallen and for the next few years it will only be around $150G. No doubt this still seems rather large to some, but I cannot afford her endless quest to find herself and the expenses of the horse farm. (It’s also alot of work!) In truth, money doesn’t matter to me, though.
OK, OK, I’m rambling. But all this comes down to her not only rejecting the church, but me for being a part of it and not for becoming a horse lover (they’re just OK). I’ve forced nothing upon her, never directed her, consider it important that she makes all her own decisions, in fact I always tended to follow her lead (except in business)….and yet I’ve failed. Where I’ve failed is that I just want to quit. I have tremendous guilt about wanting to do so. There are times when I just don’t want to see her. I crave … (you forget how strong the … urge and even just general affection is until you get absolutely none).
Yes, we’ve gone to counseling. Most times I sit and listen while she complains about the church, her family, my family, kids, her work, my work, etc. The counselor and her got into it one day. I thin they were both having a menopausal moment.
I must say she is helping with the kids a little again. A little. There’s only one left.
All this is to point out that it just isn’t as simple as one of the partners going inactive. Usually, it’s not just one aspect of our life that changes when this happens.
So, we take one step at a time. Sometimes in silent bitterness.
Hey, all I ever really wanted in life was to be a good home teacher and to find and marry in the temple a woman who loves me…alot.
Not in this life. Back to work.