Looking back, my numerous, futile attempts at trying not to masturbate during my teens and early twenties seem pretty comical. I never tied my hands to the bedposts or anything kinky like that, but I prayed with intense fervor and sang mental hymns until I was blue in the face. What is comical to me now is the little “top secret” notepad I kept hidden in my sock drawer in which I created calendars to track my personal progress, or lack thereof. I can’t remember where I got the idea, but somewhere I’d either read or heard that no goal or resolution had a chance of success unless it was written down. I was maybe 15 or 16 years old at the time. Worried that my parents or siblings would find the notepad, I wrote my goal down in some kind of code, and then made a check mark each morning in the date box of the calendar I’d created if I’d succeeded in not masturbating the day before. When (not “if”) I screwed up, I ripped out the page and started over again.
My record was 31 days. It was a Herculean effort, I tell you. By the end I was as tense as a drug addict waiting for the doctor at the methadone clinic to fill out his prescription. During the last ten days or so of “the streak,” I even took to praying for release in the form of the rumored “wet dream” I’d heard so much about. But the Nocturnal Emission Gods, whether they reside high in the heavens above or deep inside my body, only taunted me with the dreams, not the much-needed release.
I was both relieved and angry when my streak ended— relieved that I’d be spared, at least temporarily, from the seemingly unquenchable fires of lust, but angry that I’d have to start a new streak all over again. I was also becoming despondent that I’d never be master of my domain. It seemed an impossible goal. And each slip up meant repenting—again! I knew that repeating a sin for which one had previously repented undid the previous repentance in God’s general ledger. As such, the backlog of sin for which I had to re-repent was, with each new offense, turning from a molehill into a mountain. My nerves couldn’t take it.
Don’t let my semi-flippant attitude here fool you into thinking my pain wasn’t real. During my teen years I blamed every failure on my inability to not just control, but completely subdue my masterbatory impulses. Unanswered prayers, bad test scores (after I’d studied hard), my shyness around girls, and other personal shortcomings or failures both great and small— all of it was God’s punishment (or withheld blessings) for my inability to completely refrain from so-called self-abuse. Like that guy in the song “Paper Dream” from Saturday’s Warrior, I wanted to be that “man with courage in his brow, who’s licked his doubts and fears somehow, a warrior of great nobility…” if only I could just lick this problem that inflicted me with so much shame.
[Note: While I’m sure I’m the first (and last) human being to reference a Saturday’s Warrior song as one’s personal ode to non-masturbation, pop songs have long detailed both the shame (and, let’s face it) joy of touching oneself.]
“Just for a day, on a day like today, I’ll get away from this constant debauchery…”
How desperate, how dark was my shame? My mom kept a huge, professional-grade paper cutter in our office. The thought occurred to me, more than once, that one quick “THWACK!” of the arm would take care of my problem once and for all. How much could I accomplish if I were free from the bondage of lust? The sheer lunacy of such logic surely boggles any sane mind. But it speaks volumes of my conflicted and troubled state of mind. Now, let me quickly say that I never came close – no, not even close! – to carrying out this ultimate form of “self abuse,” but the mere idea that I once even contemplated the thought chills my blood today. [Note: I’ve since read that while such actual self-mutilation is very rare, such shame-triggered thoughts of self-mutilation are not uncommon, especially for people raised in religious homes where masturbation is taught as being sinful.]
“The devil will find work for idle hands to do…”
My masturbation problem continued to dog me on my mission, though lack of privacy and idle time, and a redoubled effort to control my thoughts, greatly helped curtail both my impulses and the carrying out of the actual deed itself. Surely my masturbation record during the two years when I was 19 and 20 – years during which my natural biological inclinations were no doubt at, or close to, an all time high — would make the average Gentile 19- or 20-year-old stare with shock and awe. But my infrequent slip-ups still left me feeling dejected and humiliated. I had to be the only missionary in the mission who engaged in such lascivious behavior, right?
“Let me go on, like I blister in the sun…”
I reached my shame nadir when, as a relatively new missionary and lowly junior companion, a Zone Leader who shared our apartment busted in on me while I was taking a shower, catching me in flagrante delicto. Would he tell the other missionaries who shared our apartment? Would he tell the mission president? I dreaded meeting his reproachful eyes later that day. To my lasting relief, he betrayed not even the least hint that he’d witnessed anything even slightly untoward, and continued to treat me with the utmost respect, both as a friend and brother missionary. Was he, like Christ, sympathetic to the least of these my brethren; or was he, like me, not immune to the lustful temptations of the flesh?
“I’m turning Japanese I think I’m turning Japanese I really think so…”
Well, let me cut short this little walk down memory lane. Like other bad habits, marriage put an end to my ignominious days as a Serial Masturbator/Repenter. That said, even after my mission, but long before my marriage, education and maturity helped me adopt a more healthy approach to masturbation. I’d long since exorcized most of my 16-year-old demons.
“She bop, he bop a we bop, I bop, you bop a they bop, be bop, be bop a lu she bop…”
But I now have two sons… The oldest is still a good six-to-eight years away from entering the choppy waters of puberty, but I sometimes wonder what to teach him? Certainly, a “go get ‘em Tiger” approach misses some valuable life lessons. Like any natural inclination (i.e. the desire to eat!), excessive or obsessive indulgence in that inclination can lead to unhealthy consequences. Medicating one’s problems via indulgence in food or masturbation is clearly not a healthy or mature way to deal with the challenges of life. Furthermore, I’m not naïve to the bundling of masturbation and pornography. But pornography seems to be an entirely different and thorny subject, one I’d like to detangle from garden-variety masturbation for the sake of this argument.
So I’ve got lots of questions. Feel free to indulge any of the following…
Was your experience growing up anything like mine? Did you find the inclination difficult, if not impossible to control? Did masturbation hurt you spiritually? Should it hurt us spiritually? Have you adopted a more mature and open-minded view of masturbation as an adult? What do you teach your kids regarding masturbation? Or do you teach them anything? Is Cyndi Lauper right: do we all “bop”?
Regarding Masturbation and the Church…
Has the Church adopted a more lenient view on masturbation in the past 20-30 years? Is the masturbation question still asked of our youth? Can masturbation keep someone off his or her mission? What should the Church’s position be on masturbation (in your opinion)? Same as it ever was? Don’t ask don’t tell? Repent only if one feels it has become a “problem”? Are there any historical LDS precedents on this front? For example, was this issue even on Joseph Smith’s radar screen? Brigham’s? Does LDS views on masturbation differ significantly from mainline Christian views?
And, most important, what is your favorite ode (pop song) to autoeroticism?
I’ve gotta remain anonymous. my high school experience was somewhat similar to yours. the guilt, the blaming of bad things on having masturbated the night before. the keeping of a journal to attempt to get myself to stop. masturbating on the mission (which let me tell you was harder on my psyche than anytime before or since—because I felt that I was not spiritual enough for some of our investigators, and that I was letting the Lord down). my longest time going without was two months.
after my mission, I kept it up. my social experiences were terrible where I lived and I ended up starting to look at pornography. this ended up with me having sex with prostitutes in europe. i was not excommunicated, but of my own volition, i did get disfellowshipped. This lasted for several years, through which time i had more sex with prostitutes.
I wish I had the courage to tell the whole story, because it is very instructive, but I am weak. Maybe someday I will. And it won’t be anonymous. In any case, I am now happily married, occasionally looking at porn and occasionally masturbating.
Masturbation is a separate beast from porn, but porn is definitely tied to masturbation. I think that the advice I would give would be for men (and women) to continually fight it as much as they can. At least from my experience, the more you give in, the deeper you go. But I’ve also learned that each person has a different level of sexual desire, and for some it is very easy to let it go, while others can’t get enough.
I find, however, that when I fight it, when I press against the desire, I tend to think more about God and more about the kind of person I need to and want to be. Ironically, my favorite pop song to autoeroticism happens to be Nine Inch Nails’ “Closer.” —”I want to f*** you like an animal…you get me closer to God.”
Great post Tom. In reverse order:
Whip It by Devo. Pretty straightforward, really. No explanation necessary.
Like so many things in the church, approaches to dealing with masturbation seem to vary wildly depending on local Bishops and youth leaders. Some Bishops treat it as a serious sin that requires confession–and they feel it’s their duty to quiz young people on it in every interview. Other Bishops seem to realize it’s a normal, mostly healthy, and virtually inevitable part of growing up, and they’re smart enough to simply not ask questions. IMO, the church really, really needs to move into the 21st century on this issue and put a definitive, permanent stop to Bishops and youth leaders who are making young men and women feel horrible about themselves and punishing them for engaging in a behavior that nearly any objective medical professional will tell you is a normal part of growing up.
As far as my own kids go, I’ve told my 14 year old son that masturbation is normal. It’s private. And it’s not something he needs to feel guilty about or discuss with anyone (including the Bishop). I’ve also talked to him about the importance of self control and moderation–and that too much of anything (food, video games, TV, masturbation, whatever), can be unhealthy. I’ve told him that if the Bishop asks him about masturbation, he should feel free to simply tell him that’s not something he discusses with anyone except his parents.
As a teenager, I suffered many of the same unhealthy and unnecessary feelings of guilt and self-loathing over masturbation you described, and I’m working hard to make sure my kids won’t have to go through that.
Thanks for sharing your story, anonymous (#1).
I chose the pseudonym “Tom Sawyer,” not because I wouldn’t openly discuss any of these experiences with 98% of the people on the bloggernacle, but because I didn’t want my real name (which I usually blog under) and masturbation tied together for anyone (i.e. employers, grandparents) to google.
Your story doesn’t make me question masturbation as much as it makes me question the way we tie shame to masturbation. It appears that your excessive guilt brought on by masturbation brought on a shame spiral that lead to prostitution, etc. Had you not felt so much shame I wonder if you would have sought out prostitutes, and instead doused the natural flames of desire via the far-less-destructive means of masturbation?
The same thing often happens to our Homosexual brothers in the Church… they feel so much shame for their natural inclinations that it leads to destructive, promiscuous behavior and extreme self-loathing. (And, I’d add that the same destructive behavior often occurs with Catholic Priests who are taught that the sexual impulse (for Priests) is ungodly.)
I’m not suggesting shame shouldn’t be bundled with all sexual behaviors. Certainly, shame is probably a necessary deterrent for inclinations towards pedophilia and even towards the inclination to cheat on one’s spouse, but including masturbation and/or homosexual sex between committed/loving partners in the shame bucket seems to miss the big picture.
Great post, “Tom.”
I think your experience describes that of most LDS males during their teenage years. Unfortunately, your belief that “I had to be the only missionary in the mission [or deacon, or teacher, or priest in the quorum...] who engaged in such lascivious behavior” is also probably typical. I myself thought that I was the only young man in my ward and seminary class who could be so uncontrolled and perverted. Now I realize that I was probably very normal.
I repented of this great iniquity at about 18 and a half, and actually managed to stave off the urge for several years…during which time I struggled immensely with anxiety, depression, and sexual guilt stemming from everything from the occasional “unclean” thought, to erotic dreams (I thought my thoughts and past behavior precipitated such dreams), to intense fears that I would relapse and be lost to other indulgences.
I’ve since adopted a more healthy, realistic approach to things, partly due to my wife. Although she is still an orthodox Mormon by most standards, she apparently was not subjected to the anti-masturbation rhetoric to which many Aaronic priesthood holders are subjected. She believes it might technically be sinful, but that it’s just one of those things that everyone does sometimes, and nothing worth getting worked up over (unless it’s clearly excessive or compulsive). I’ve read a lot about the subject, and I myself wouldn’t even consider masturbation sinful, but my wife’s moderate view certainly helped me overcome sexual guilt and the related anxiety.
Did masturbation hurt you spiritually? Should it hurt us spiritually?
Masturbation has never hurt me, spiritually or otherwise. But the guilt and shame connected to it certainly have. However, I do not believe that these feelings in any way reflect God’s displeasure. Rather, they are attributable to cultural conditioning, which instills in our mind that masturbation belongs to a class of sins second in seriousness only to murder.
We should not be taught that normal, non-compulsive masturbation is a sin, that it will hurt us, or that it will precipitate other, more grevious sins. The mental health problems that this paradigm creates far outweigh any potentially negative effects that could result from a normal masturbation habit.
Has the Church adopted a more lenient view on masturbation in the past 20-30 years?
I think so. Take a look at this article from the journal Sexuality & Culture. I think things have changed substantially in the Church’s short history.
Thanks for sharing this, Tom. Some kids actually kill themselves over these issues. Others become depressed. The problem is that the kids who are the most faithful are getting hurt the most.
There is the sad case of Kip Eliason who considered suicide the only escape from masturbation. His bishop was implicated in the events, so was his physician who followed the Church instead of medical protocol. Had the doctor been more professional then Kip might still be alive.
One of my friends, Working Father, worked as a nurse on a psych ward in Utah county and reports that they received suicidal cases of young LDS men regularly, sometimes directly from the MTC. Usually, they were desperate about masturbation.
I know of several missionaries who committed suicide and I would not be surprised if guilt over masturbation was the number one motivation.
Of course, there is no scriptural warrant against masturbation. We need to be more rational about biology.
As for interviews, I do not allow untrained strangers to discuss sex with my children at all. It’s too dangerous.
There have been some Bishops who have used the privacy and the authority of their office to abuse teenagers. Many more have laid too much guilt on young people.
If folks want to talk to my children then they have to do it in my presence. It’s just not worth the risk.
Tom,
I have wondered that too. I tend to see myself as excessive, or maybe even compulsive. I’m certainly not a “normal” case, seeing that I was physically and sexually abused by my father. Now, before we get too shocked, his sexual abuse was that he would make my sister and I shower with him, and wash his body, all of it. This was when I was about ten years old or so. It constitutes sexual abuse, but not the kind you usually hear about. He was also physically abusive. He also used to watch pornography quite blatantly, with his wife, my mother doing dishes in the kitchen and me and my sister playing out side. Though we weren’t playing. We were pretending, and taking turns to look inside at what he was watching. I’m sorry if I’m going on a total tangent here into a heavy topic, not quite under the subject of the thread. I guess I really do need to start writing this stuff down, though, and getting it all out. I wonder though, what will that do? Would it do more harm than good?
As far as what I’ll say to my children, it will probably be along the lines of what Hellmut said. My children are not to talk to their bishop about such private matters.
Normal. What a crappy word. I would suggest working through it rather than letting it lay dormant. If you can let the steam out bit by bit it’s much better than having it blow up while you aren’t expecting it.
I am one of the only people I know who actually made it the whole mission without masturbating. I tacked six months on before and afterwards giving me a three year streak, something I neither hope nor plan to ever best.
Don’t knock it, it’s sex with someone I love.
This is one of the main reasons I left the Church. That a group of geriatrics who have been having sex for 50 years should deny youth and singles the unencumbered right to their own bodies is abusive. My last day at churcn was as a 36 year old single. At yet another Chastity Talk, the bishop insisted to the Ivy League scholars at a popular singles ward for older members that 1. They could not attend or work at the temple if they masturbated 2. They needed to confess it to him in bishop intervi
Sorry–this is still Fiona. I had to go to another computer.
Anyway, this was not just some rogue bishop. I had attended singles wards in five different states in 18 years. Whether in a public meeting (Chastity Talks) or in private one-on-one meetings (sometimes even during temple recommend interviews) bishops would tell singles that masturbation is against the Law of Chastity. Some would deny or revoke temple recommends for it. Others would pile on the guilt. One of my best friends (a forty year old never-married woman) was threatened with Church discipline because she did not agree with the bishop that using a vibrator was sinful and she refused to “repent” of biology.
So I was FINALLY outraged after years of what I term “spiritual abuse.” I realize this is not an anti-Mormon forum. I realize the Church helps and is a blessing to some people. I know people here are trying to find a middle way. But if someone is gay, or an older gay/straight single who believes in Church Authority and all that goes with it, this is going to be one very difficult issue to get around.
I also know (now) that it’s better to keep one’s mouth shut or not to “confess” masturbation to any “authority.” I realize that a lot of people lie to keep their recommends or their membership, especially when ridiculous stances on something as harmless (and beneficial!) as masturbation is on the line.
I know that masturbation was a blessing for me as a single woman. I left the Church in my late 30s, still single and a virgin. (I later married, and I now believe that my messed-up issues surrounding sexuality were largely due to church teachings and my interpretation of them). Like Helmutt, I know people who have killed themselves or attempted to kill themselves over this issue. It may seem funny and cute to people who marry early and whose spouses helped them “get over it” but for MANY of us it is NOT a laughing matter.
Fiona’s post reminds me of Frans de Waal’s book Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes. Unwise alphas will attempt to dominate everyone’s sexuality. The consequences are usually violent.
Leveraging sex for power has always been in the authoritarian play book. Liberal democracy, on the other hand, is an attempt to separate sex and power. It is no accident that Joseph Smith got killed over polygamy. When sex and power become intertwined there are not many alternatives to violence.
In a sense, the obsession with people’s sexuality is substituting for polygamy. If you cannot demonstrate your superiority by interposing yourself into sexual relationships then you have to demonstrate that you are on top by regulating everyone else’s sexuality.
It’s not a healthy attitude. It dehumanizes leaders as well as the members. While leaders are rewarded in terms of status, literal believers have to pay the price. They either become liars or they have to submit to domination.
The alternative is to find some way to check out of the power play, either by quitting the game or by redefining the rules.
I should have mentioned that some bishops claimed that we were single BECAUSE we masturbated.
Hey, Kirk,
I was one of those uber-obedient souls who never masturbated in his whole life until the age of 30, and that was after leaving the church and after being married for 2 years. I had the mindset that the Lord told me not to so I never did.
Although I did have plenty of wet dreams and from time to time I had what I considered then a problem looking at porn which I felt very guilty about.
In recent years, it seems that the Church has been increasingly silent about the masturbation issue. I may be wrong, but I suspect that this may be one of those teachings that we eventually negate through neglect. In 20 years, LDS youth may think it silly that the Church was once so vocal about masturbation, in the same way that my generation looks back at outdated teachings about birth control and face cards.
Steve,
I think you’re right–things seem to be slowly headed that way. I wonder if Bishops are getting any kind of formal or informal direction from the heirarchy on this issue.
Although there seems to be a gradual de-emphasis, there seem to be plenty of conservative Bishops out there who still feel strongly that it’s part of their duty to ask young people about masturbation and still consider it a serious sin that requires confession (our current Bishop included).
If the church is going to move away from its traditional line on masturbation, I wish they’d provide local leadership with some training or direction (or even a couple of sentences in the CHI). The whole “we’ll just sort of ignore it and hope it fades away” approach creates huge inconsistency in how Bishops handle the issue–and IMO causes a lot of unnecessary damage.
I’m glad Fiona weighed in with a female opinion. I should have mentioned that I also have a daughter and wonder what I (or my wife) should say to her on this subject? Sunstone did a “Vagina Monologues” kind of thing for a couple of years back in the early 2000s. Female masturbation was one of the subjects that came up with some frequency. A great download if anyone is interested.
The self-control exhibited by Kirk and Hueffenhardt during parts of their lives amaze me.
Have always liked the Annie Hall quote Kirk dropped in #7. One of my favorite Woody Allen masturbation quotes comes from Zelig. Leonard Zelig (Allen) has adopted the guise of a Psychologist or Doctor of some kind, claiming to be a specialist in “advanced masturbation.” “I have to council a group of chronic masturbators”, Zelig complains, “and if I’m late they’ll start without me.”
I’d agree with Hellmut re the relationship between power and sex. Having said that, at the local level, many leaders are just trying to do the right thing, many no doubt genuinely think/believe masturbation to be a kind of barrier between the individual and their relationship with God. In other words, I don’t think it is always a calculated power thing, sometimes it is an ignorant, just-trying-to-do-the-right-thing thing.
Of course, the overwhelming majority of LDS leaders are trying to do the right thing. The problem is that these things operate functionally rather than intentionally. Awareness is not necessary to perform a function.
I agree with Square Peg in #14. First, I wonder if the church has been increasingly silent on the subject of masturbation due to some inherent strategy, or if it has become increasingly silent because many bishops have individually and privately decided to ignore masturbation and stick to the bigger issues. I’m guessing many of these Bishops were masturbators themselves, once upon a time, and have developed a more healthy approach to the issue over the years. This is a positive step, but there will still be bishops who stridently go after the Masturbators. Such Bishops may have had lower sex drives and misinterpret that as strength and holiness and feel the need to pharisaically judge and prosecute the “weaker” Saints. Others may have been chronic masturbators who continue to feel shame/guilt and as Bishops resolve to stamp out the problem with the next generation. There are obviously hundreds of other “profiles.”
Some kind of formal direction needs to come from Salt Lake, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Still, if you were advising SLC, what would be a workable solution or policy? Should it simply be, “stay out of it entirely, it’s none of your business,” or can a kind of moderation policy be adopted? For example, I wouldn’t mind a church lesson on the dangers of obsessive or compulsive behavior, one that included masturbation among other behaviors (eating, drinking, shopping, video game playing, etc). A corresponding bishops interview question with the emphasis on “health” or achieving more “balance/wholeness,” (as opposed to the emphasis being on “sin”), may even be workable. I don’t know, maybe not.
Finally, there have been a lot of talks by GAs on the subject of pornography over the past 5-10 years. I haven’t read or listened to many of them, but those that I did read or listen to, I can’t remember the subject of masturbation being part of the talks. Anyone remember differently?
I seem remember repeated directives from the First Presidency that interviewers were to stick precisely to the temple interview questions. At the time, I interpreted that as a plea not to invent sins and to rely on the conscience of the individual rather than imposing something.
That might not take us all the way, but if my reading is correct then there may have been an active effort to accelerate the dropping of masturbation.
I think that what happens with singles wards in temple recommend interviews is that if/since the bishopric knows that the ward member is not dating, the Law of Chastity question automatically means auto-erotic behavior. So a single person will interpret that question in that light.
Tom,
I do not recall an instance when the General Authorities, while talking about pornography, talked about masturbation. They have however on several occasions referred listeners to For the Strength of Youth pamphlet (the old one talked about masturbation—don’t know if the newer one does).
Anon,
The newer FTSOY pamphlet counsels:
“Before marriage, do not do anything to arouse the powerful emotions that must be expressed only in marriage…. Do not arouse those emotions in your own body.”
But, for what it’s worth, an injunction against masturbation is absent from the “True to the Faith” booklet.
As a gay(*) man who is married and an active member of the LDS church, I can tell you that M is a big problem for gay Mormon’s who are struggling to stay true to the church (and there are more of us than anyone might guess). Those of us who are married have a sexual release. But, my heart really goes out to single gay Mormons. They are taught that homosexual attractions are not sin, but homosexual actions are. They are counseled that they should not get married. They are told that M is bad, that they shouldn’t have any contact with other gay men. The loneliness and despair that many of them feel is fully understandable, and it is no wonder that most of them ultimately leave the church.
As a father, I’m a bit of a failure in that I never talked to my sons about M. I suspected they did it (from the telltale signs, like wadded up tissues under the bed), but I considered it their business. But, I guess my failure didn’t warp them too much since my oldest son is engaged to be married later this year and my youngest son recently returned home from his mission.
(*) I should probably stick with the church sanctioned term of same sex attraction, or SSA. But, it sounds so clinical.
I went to lds.org and input the word “masturbation” in their search engine. Several items came up. The first was chapter five, “Teaching Adolescents: from Twelve to Eighteen Years” from “A Parent’s Guide,” copyright 1985. It says the following about masturbation:
Read more here.
Also, in a talk by Joy Saunders Lundberg, she quotes from For The Strength of the Youth as follows:
The above talk was given in 1991. It would be interesting to compare the FtSoY pamphlet circa 1991 and today.
Finally, most of the quotes/articles at lds.org quote from either Spencer W. Kimball or Boyd K. Packer. Very few articles/quotes from GA’s since the early 80s on the subject.
Vaughn Featherstone gave the following wonderfully constuctive object lesson and advice in 1975:
Later, he says:
And finally, a little later he says:
But again, one has to go back more than 25 years before these kinds of direct quotes on the subject can be found. Certainly a positive step in the right direction.
Tom,
Self-mastery is an interesting subject, and one I think which Vaughn Featherstone was trying to convey. Our world today is a very sexualized world, and guarding ourselves against these temptations would definitely do well for us. As one who has gone pretty far into the sexual world, I understand what Featherstone is trying to say. I’m still conflicted on the issue. Yes, masturbation is ‘natural,’ but we’re not trying to be natural, we’re trying to be Godly. Individually, how can we do that if we let such inhibitions go free? Because of my experiences with bishops, I believe strongly that my children will not be talking with them about their personal lives, but I do believe the message needs to stay consistent.
I think within the issue of masturbation, there is a difference between someone who is ‘relieving the stress’ and one who masturbates for the pleasure, for those ten seconds of joy. This second type gets addicting, and in the end, I think that’s what ends up being to our detriment. I’m addicted to it. It feels great. Even as I’m married to a wonderful and beautiful woman. I still like to do it on my own. I don’t think that’s healthy.
Dear God!!! Where do I start. Tom, your story made me jump out of my skin it is so similar to my own. I always thought that I was the only boy that masterbated. I actually went through high school thinking that I was the only kid at chuch who masterbated!!! Like you, I also tried to develop a system to track my progress. It involved a check list that I left in the bathroom. I used an acronym for masterbation to keep my “deviant” behavior a secret, given that other members of the family would see the checklist. It was there on the checklist along with other items like, morning prayer, evening prayer, scritpure reading, brush my teeth, etc. I think the longest I made it without masterbating was 5 days. Hell, I think 5 was my record for how many times I masterbated in one day!!!!
Needless to say, it did not work. It only contributed to my feelings of low self-esteem. I can’t tell you how bad I felt that I could not control myself. I remember reading Spencer Kimball’’s “Miracle of Forgiveness” and seeing masterbation discussed in the same pages as beastiality and homosexuality. I just felt awful. Once someone remarked that I must masterbate because I had an ance problem. I believied that if I could just stop masterbating my acne would go away.
When queried by the bishop and stake president I always lied. Never told the truth, until I went I my mission. My stake president was able to get it out of me. He would not send in my papers until I had controlled myself for one month! Needless to say, it took me a while before I was able to go. He also insisted that I tell my father about my “problem” as well as the other sexual sins of my youth. I will never forget the look on my Dad’s face. It was like he just heard that I had been shot. (To his credit, he adjusted to it and it did not become a problem between us.)
I experienced a few slipups during and after my mission, but not many. I am amazed that I was able to control it so well. I married at age 26. During my marriage it has not been an issue.
Concerning the church’s approach to this issue today, I really believe it is driven by the bishop and stake president, but I can sense that attitudes are changing. I sincerely hope they are. But I worry that there are some rogueleaders who just don’t get it, and are more interested in handing down judgments than they are in trying to understand and love. I hope they are in the minority.
ps I did not use my name because I still can’t get myself to admit, in a public forum, that I masterbated as a youth. Sad.
Yes, masturbation is ‘natural,’ but we’re not trying to be natural, we’re trying to be Godly. Individually, how can we do that if we let such inhibitions go free?
Aside from occasional short-term fasting, Latter-day Saints generally don’t fight the natural urge to eat and drink. We don’t hold our breath for long periods of time in an effort to fight off the “natural man.”
Sexuality is a physiological need. According to Abraham Maslow’s hierarchy of human needs, this need is placed on the same level as eating, drinking, and breathing. It’s one of our most fundamental needs as human beings.
While abstaining from sexual release does not have the same consequences as abstaining from food for long periods of time, there are some health consequences for sexual repression.
Don’t worry, Huck. It’s appropriate not to share that kind of information to a world wide audience.
anonymous (#26) said: “Yes, masturbation is ‘natural,’ but we’re not trying to be natural, we’re trying to be Godly. “
This assumes God doesn’t/didn’t masturbate. If you believe in God, then I think you also have to believe that sexual impulses and pleasure are one of His gifts to us. Yes, any impulse or pleasure can be abused to our bodily and/or spiritual detriment, but wholesale avoidance is just as bad as unmitigated indulgence, don’t you think?
There is a wonderful article in the current issue of Dialogue called “The Theology of Desire” written by a convert named Cetti Cherniak. She digs out the sensual/physical/earthy pleasure out of Mormon Theology in an exciting way I don’t think I’ve seen before. After studying and finding such physical vitality in Mormonism she was dismayed to find that many/most actual Mormons were more repressed than she ever would have imagined. Check it out.
Tom,
Yes it is. I wasn’t clear in my comment but I did say this:
As you can tell from my comments, I’m still quite conflicted on the issue. I clearly enjoy masturbation and sexual arousal, but I’m not sure if I should stop feeling guilty about it.
The comparison to food and water is not accurate, as we don’t feel guilty eating or drinking (though we do feel guilty if we overeat). No one told me, before I began masturbating, that it was a sin. I felt guilty from the first time I did it. Something inside me said, that was not a good thing to do. Something inside me also said, yeah, that felt great. How do you do that again? It clearly is a more complicated issue than that of eating and drinking.
This second type gets addicting, and in the end, I think that’s what ends up being to our detriment…. The comparison to food and water is not accurate, as we don’t feel guilty eating or drinking (though we do feel guilty if we overeat). No one told me, before I began masturbating, that it was a sin. I felt guilty from the first time I did it. Something inside me said, that was not a good thing to do.
Your experience may be exceptional. Most do not feel guilty about masturbation unless they have been taught that it’s sinful.
From what I’ve read, masturbation “addiction” (compulsive masturbation) is more likely to result when there is guilt/shame attached to the practice. Where this stigma doesn’t exist, people may masturbate regularly (just as we eat and drink regularly), but it is not an excessive, compulsive habit that interferes with regular functioning.
Wow, Huck… it’s like we grew up in the same neighborhood or something.
Speaking of which, why don’t you and Jim meet me by the river after school. I’ve got a plan up my sleeve and I’ll need some help. Also watch out for that good-fer-nothin’ rapscallion Injun Joe. He’s been eyeballin’ me something awful ever since we seen him kill Dr. Robinson. I think he might be onto us. We might need to run off and become pirates or something if he finds out.
Steve,
my experience is probably more unique than most, I think. I can only relate here my experience. I may be pretty conflicted on what to do, but this conversation has definitely helped. It has given me much to think about, more than even what I studied on my own. So I do want to thank Tom Sawyer for bringing this topic to light.
Another female voice dropping by…
I had to respond to comment #31: “No one told me, before I began masturbating, that it was a sin. I felt guilty from the first time I did it. Something inside me said, that was not a good thing to do.”
I was not a member of the Church until age 19. My parents were always quite open about sex and although we never spoke about masturbation, they gave me a small book to read when I was about 11 that mentioned masturbation as a completely natural and healthy response. I never felt guilty about masturbating as a youth nor did I feel guilty after I joined the Church and read “The Miracle of Forgiveness.” I did abstain completely during my mission, more as a “fasting” kind of an effort. (I also ate no chocolate during the 18 months of my mission.) I am quite sure that my sexual needs are very much lower than those of a healthy male, so I don’t feel there should be any guilt in this type of expression, even on a mission.
Now that I have been a member of the Church for many years, I do feel more conflicted on the issue. For me it is no longer an issue since I married quite soon after my mission and my husband’s needs are Way greater than my own. But for my children I have adopted a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. And that story by Vaughn Featherstone was inspiring, in a way. And I don’t quite know how to handle Bishop’s interviews (do I really want to teach them to lie??
BiV said: “Do I really want to teach them to lie?”
I’m not sure it is an honesty thing. We withhold information from people for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with honesty. I might be less than forthcoming with my kids about some subject because they aren’t ready to hear about it. Or it may be none of their business. I’ve done the same with friends, colleagues, employers, and even my spouse. Sometimes they have a different understanding of something and it is easier to agree or avoid the question altogether than discuss the finer points.
It strikes me that we do this all the time in bishop’s interviews anyway with questions related to personal belief and practice.
I’ve had bishops with whom I’ve felt comfortable talking about everything, and others whom I’ve not trusted and therefore held things close to the vest. For example, when I prepared for my mission I freely admitted many things to my Stake President that I withheld from my Bishop. I told my SP that I didn’t feel comfortable discussing some issues with my Bishop and he had no problem with me “lying” to him.
As such, I would not encourage my children to admit masturbating to their bishop unless they felt it was a problem.
What did you find inspiring about Featherstone’s story? I’m just curious, not putting you on the defensive.
Thanks for this post, Tom. My experience was much like yours- I kept track in my journal in a sort of code. I felt horrible. Over the years several bishops in various wards heard my story, but their suggestions didn’t help me resist.
Eventually my guilt over masturbation made me depressed, convinced that my eternal fate was hopeless. I reached the point that I decided to end my pain by ending my life. After deciding on a method, I found that my ability to carry through with that decision was no greater than my ability to not masturbate. Fortunately.
I learned recently that this issue is the reason that a dear friend of mine resigned from the church. He waited until he was an adult to do it, but resolved as a teen to end his involvement with the church when his bishop interrogated him about masturbation.
If it ever gets published, you’ll be able to read more of my experience in another source. (I am told that the editor is waiting for another piece to be finished before publishing that issue.)
Thanks again, Tom, for raising the issue.
Do any of you think the effort at repressing has the effect of reinforcing the impulse?
Ann: Do any of you think the effort at repressing has the effect of reinforcing the impulse?
Absolutely. I feel the same thing when I diet.
Having said that, the idea again is to find some kind of healthy balance or equilibrium. For those that overeat, there needs to be some kind of repression to get the balance right. But starving oneself or binging & purging substitutes one problem for another.
Someone that compulsively and obsessively masturbates needs to work on repressing the desire, not elliminate sexual desire altogether. In my experience, I never thought about sex as much as when I was trying not to masturbate. When I fast (or repress the desire to eat), I’m not thinking as much about food because I know there will be a payoff later.
I’d say the same about someone with an unhealthy sexual attraction towards children. The idea is not to repress sexual desire altogether. That will only reinforce the impulse. The idea in such a case is to channel the sexual desires into healthier outlets.
I was interested in the question about honesty. My response would be that we are only dishonest when we withhold information from people who have a right to know something. I can’t imagine how on earth any church leader would have a right to know about that. Really, it is simply none of their business, and I, for one, will allow my children the dignity of keeping their auto-erotic behaviors private.
What’s inspiring about the Featherstone story? I don’t know, I guess just having a challenge placed before you as a young and idealistic person that most people can’t do, and deciding to do it. Then sticking to it for years and years, and finally being able to stand up and say, “I am a rare young man.”
But the flip side of it is all the young boys who are basically trying to sexually “starve” themselves, and finally giving in, and the despair of trying and failing to become that noble being they desire so desperately to be.
So I have no idea what to tell my own young man, who is 12. And so I am silent, and conflicted.
I’m not using my usual name either, not because I’m ashamed of masturbating, but some things you just don’t need to know about your friends.
First of all, thank you, Tom, for writing this. It really resonated with me and my experiences growing up.
Like so many others that have commented, I tried so hard to not masturbate when I was a teenager. No matter what I tried, I simply did not have the self-control to make it longer than a week or two. The really damaging part came afterwards: I would feel so guilty and lousy about my lack of self-control that I would get depressed and withdraw from others at school. I felt worthless, depressed, and I thought about suicide frequently.
All this drama and trauma for something so natural and inconsequential! I shudder to think how much healthier my adolescence could have been if someone had sat me down and said, “Mr. Ecko, you’re entering your sexual peak and you’re brimming with hormones. Releasing these tensions once or twice a day is normal, natural, and does not make you less of a human being.”
No bishop ever directly asked me about it, but they always fished for it without mentioning specifically. “Is there anything else that you need to tell me?” “Are there any morality issues?” My Stake President told me to drink a gallon of orange juice every time I had the urge, so I would associate sexual urges with feeling ill. I think it was a poor man’s Clockwork Orange treatment, and it didn’t really work. I made it something like 7 or 8 months without a slip-up on my mission, mostly due to lack of privacy.
It sounds kind of silly, but the Church’s stand against masturbation helped lead me out of it. I simply couldn’t believe that an act that hurt no one could be a grave sin. And ever since I stopped believing masturbation was a sin, I haven’t had a problem with it and the frequency has gone way down. In my experience, it is the shame spirals that spark the unhealthy behavior.
It’s not masturbation that ruins the childhood of so many members, it’s the excessive guilt encouraged by the church.
I am not sure that dieting is a valid analogy, Tom. Males generate new sperm every day, which has to be released. That’s why it’s called the sex drive.
As Mr. Ecko points out, masturbation is inconsequential. I am not sure if there are equivalents to either of those points to overeating.
Getting fat like me is definitely a mistake (it’s not the end of the world either) but wanting sex several times a week is not. The question is rather how one goes about satisfying that desire.
so, all you guys who are consumed with guilt, do you think a “don’t ask” policy is damaging for young boys? Do you think a parent should at least mention to their child that masturbation is normal and healthy? Do you think they will believe you when they are hearing the opposite from their youth leaders?
Also, do any of you who are active in the Church feel guilty about going against the party line in teaching your youth it’s OK to masturbate?
BIV, not a guy, nor consumed with guilt. But I absolutely think that you can tell your twelve year old that it’s normal. I think it would also be good to balance that with…balance. Make sure he knows that while it’s normal, he doesn’t want to make it the focus of his life, and that self-control is a useful skill. Don’t get carried away.
Mr. Ecko, that’s exactly what I was thinking - that by awfulizing masturbation, we actually induce obsession.
I think that when the Church rails against masturbation it discriminates against gays, who, according to the Church, should never have ANY kind of sexual release.
Hellmut (#43),
I agree that food is consequential and masturbation is inconsequential. That is not where I was attempting to make an analogy. The analogy I was trying to make had to do with the way we are more likely to think about or obsess over things we repress.
Males generate sperm everyday that must be released, and they burn calories everyday that must be replenished. I think an analogy can be made in terms of how often one needs to release sperm and how much food one needs to replace calories. My point was that when I proactively attempt to eat less than I usually do (or repress the urge to eat as much), I tend to think about food more than I usually do. The same thing happens when I attempt to masturbate less or not at all.
BiV, I guess I just think there are far worthier goals that a boy could commit to and still be that “rare young man.” I hope my boys are “rare young men,” but withstanding the urge to masturbate isn’t even on my radar screen in terms of worthwhile goals or accomplishments. Furthermore, it assumes masturbation is bad, and I don’t think it is inherently bad. Such a goal sends the wrong message and sets young men up for an unnecessary fall. Young Men have enough challenges as it is. If my boys are the rare young men that avoid drugs and alcohol, and even sex until they become responsible adults, then I’ll be a proud father.
And I agree with Ann, a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is okay, but a proactive chat is better. Do you have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy about sex or drugs?
By the way, this “rare young man” business makes me wonder if they should give Young Men a plaque or medallion if they abstain from masturbation by the time they go on their mission. I’m thinking something phallic-shaped would be appropriate. Or maybe just a merit badge.
I have no idea whether I’m in the minority or the majority among lifelong active church members, but this is something I’ve never had any problem resisting. (I’m now 30 and married.)
I don’t think less of anyone who does it or has done it, and I don’t imagine that I’ve been generally more righteous or obedient than others around me. I also seriously doubt that my natural inclinations are or ever have been any weaker than anyone else’s.
The main thing I remember always being taught in church is that masturbation is something to be avoided mainly because of other things that often accompany it or traits and habits that it can easily lead to. Because of my experience, I’ve always been skeptical when I hear that it’s natural and healthy and especially when I hear that it’s inevitable.
Sorry–strike the word “natural” in my above post–of course it’s that.
BIV, as of yet, I have not had a very detailed conversation with my son (14) about masturbation. I did tell him that I am not someone who is concerned about it or gets hung up about it. He seemed pretty surprised when I told him that. I also told him that there are certain things the bishop has no right to ask him in an interview, and if he ever feels uncomfortable to tell me. I guess I have not yet summoned the courage to talk about it in a frank manner. I also know that my wife and I don’t necessarily agree on the issue. Which also contributes to my reluctance.
By the way, I no longer feel guilt over it, but I still harbor some anger. And no, on this issue, I don’t mind bucking the trend.
BIV, you asked if a “Don’t ask” policy would be damaging. This is an important question.
In my case it would have been a step in the right direction. I heard the message in priesthood sessions of conference, in firesides, in interviews with bishops, and in LDS books that masturbation was bad. The message was quite clear. Then, it was followed with specific questions in bishops interviews, asking if I masturbated. I could lie to God’s Official Representative, or I could admit that I was guilty. So as I see it, a ‘don’t ask’ policy would have been an improvement because it would have removed one very pointed reminder of my own inadequacy. There were plenty enough other reminders.
A far better step would be for the church to improve its views about bodies generally and sexuality specifically. We all urinate. We all deficate. Most teens fornicate and even more masturbate. These are things that bodies do. Why treat them as taboo topics, spoken of only with condemnation in hushed whispers? If the LDS view is that we came to earth in order to get a body, why ignore or condemn the things that bodies do?
Do we as a culture really want to put our young people through such guilt that they consider, as I seriously did, ending their lives? Suicide for feeling guilty over something that the vast majority of humanity does? Maybe some people think this would be a good thing to do, and that God supports such a view, but I don’t.
I am not saying that we should teach kids to have sex. But we should give kids age-appropriate information about their bodies, about the consequeces of actions, and about the meanings & significance of physical and emotional intimacy.
There _have_ been times when I’ve heard this kind of information, given well, in church settings. But more often, I’ve heard the kinds of messages that I never want my children, or any child, to take as seriously as I did.
Because of my experience, I’ve always been skeptical when I hear that it’s natural and healthy and especially when I hear that it’s inevitable.
Some people just never have much of an urge to masturbate. Doesn’t mean anything is wrong, but it should be recognized that such people are definitely in the minority.
However, it is very well-established that masturbation is a natural, healthy activity. And for the majority of people, it is close to inevitable that they will do it at some point in their lives (particularly during their teenage years).
Rick Deckard, aka Blade Runner,
It is well-known that Replicants have no desire to masturbate. Have you considered the fact that you might not be human? That those memories you have of not masturbating are just memory implants… that soon, all of those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain?
Think about it.
Tom
“I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.”
- Roy Batty, Replicant
Call me dense, but I had never made the connection between Whip It and masturbation:
now whip it.
into shape.
shape it up.
get straight.
Hah! It’s so obvious now. Thanks.
Anyway, so many insightful things have been said already, but I would like to add my voice to the chorus.
1) Masturbation is natural and healthy
2) Shame about masturbation is learned from man, not God
3) Shame mixed with pleasure leads to sexual addiction
4) Remove learned shame and addiction goes away
Anonymous, may I humbly submit that fighting against masturbation is exactly why it is a problem for you. You’ll never be more obsessed, more fixated on an impulse until you try to fight against it.
As an experiment, try to see how long you can go without swallowing. You may have never noticed how strong an urge this is. I just tried it, and after only a single minute my mouth was watering and my brain was screaming “For the love of everything holy, swallow!” I was consciously planning to go longer a few seconds longer, but my subconscious mind took over and I swallowed involuntarily and violently. My conscious mind was surprised to be usurped.
Perhaps you can go longer than I did, but if you’ve never done this before, I think you’ll be surprised how powerful this urge is. Would a just God hold us accountable if our subconscious mind asserts control and demands that we find sexual release?
Fighting against masturbation is what caused my youthful obsessions. Now that I’ve laid down my arms, so to speak, masturbation doesn’t cause me the least mental distress. It’s a non-issue for me. The ironic thing is that I now masturbate less often and my family life is much happier now that I’ve taken away masturbation’s power to shame me.
There are much more important things to worry about in life. Please don’t waste your emotional energy on the sexually dysfunctional philosophies of men.
Let me clarify that the fact that I masturbate less often didn’t cause my family life to be happier. My happier, less shamed self caused my happy family life because I stopped worrying about masturbation.
Tom, #48&54–you are sooo funny! I have to ask myself, do I really want my boy to win the phallus merit badge??
Jonathan, I’ve been trying your experiment, and I wanted to share my observations.
1. I can go quite a while without swallowing, if I spit a lot.
2. In order to go more than a minute without swallowing, I have to think about it _constantly_!!! I can’t think about anything else.
Um, I’m back with observation #3: Trying that experiment has impaired my ability to swallow for the past 15 minutes.
BiV:
The way we handled the masturbation issue with our teen son was to let him know what it was (my husband handled this on a guy’s night out), let him know that it’s a natural impulse but it’s best not to let it become an obsession, and then we explained to him that if he was ever asked about masturbation or his sexuality in a church interview he was to reply by telling the Bishop that such questions were an invasion of his privacy.
Of course, he’s unlikely to get asked such questions now because we no longer attend the LDS church.
Tom and others: Back in my dating years I knew _numerous_ LDS teen boys that were racked with guilt about masturbation. I experienced similar guilt but for different reasons. It’s a brutal way to grow up–believing that you’re an inherently rotten person. It’s not how I want my kids to feel about themselves or their bodies. And, honestly, it’s repulsive to me that some older man (even under the guise of church leadership) would ask such questions of my young son/daughter.
Just a few weeks ago I was musing on this topic and I made a mental list of all the intimate things I’d divulged to Bishops over the years. It horrified me that my Bishops knew so many details about my life–and it now shocks me that I so readily shared such things, thinking that it was what I was supposed to do.
By the way, one of my distant relatives, Frank Wedekind, wrote the drama Spring Awakening, which has now been adapted as a musical on Broadway.
Spring Awakening problematizes masturbation, pregnancy and suicide unflinchingly.
It took fifteen years before Wedekind could stage it for the first time. The first performance in the United States required a court injunction.
It is only fitting that the musical should premier one hundred years after the first stage performance of the drama. That was not part of the plan, however, but rather a side effect of the obstacles that the producers had to overcome even today.
Anyways, if you can afford to be in New York and want to experience a truly prophetic voice, I recommend Spring Awakening highly.
Jana, I like the way you handled this in your family.
To all readers: how do you think a Bishop might react to a young boy telling him his questions were an invasion of his privacy?? I’m wondering if this would actually work, and if it might cause him more problems with Church leadership in the future.
BiV - I personally think it’s actually more than a bit sketchy for bishops to ask sexual questions of any kind whilst alone in a room with a young boy or girl. I wonder whether they should even ask in the first place, let alone expect an answer or, worse yet, detailed descriptions. I guess a very strict or authoritative bishop might take issue with being told essentially MYOB by someone well ‘beneath’ him in the structure of things, but that would be the bishop’s problem of course. The boy pushing back and having boundaries is not inherently sinful. And while that bishop might make a fuss in the current ward, I couldn’t see it somehow following the boy around like a bad religious track record.
I also second what Fiona (#46) said.
I agree with RE. No bishop or stake president will interview my children alone. It’s just too dangerous.
Interesting post. I masturbated like crazy in high school and never felt bad about it. When I decided to go on a mission, I stopped and never did it again until about a year ago (I’m 30). I told my wife about my recent activity and she told me that she’d rather ‘help me out’ than have me ‘go it alone’.
I’ll teach my kids that it is ok, and that if asked by their bishop about it to tell him I’ve forbid them to talk about sex with any adult that is not their parent. Why on earth would I want my kids talking about their personal sexuality with someone who is 30-50 years their senior? Any other context and such a thing would be seen as perverse.
Oh, and on a completely unrelated note: when my family lived in England, one time in a temple recommend interview the stake president asked my mother if she had a problem having sex with animals. I mean, can you believe that? If ‘do you obey the law of chastity’ is good enough for a temple recommend interview, it should be good enough for a teenagers bishops interview.
I mean come on! “Do you have sex with animals?”!!!
I think it is so messed up to feel guilty over something that does not hurt yourself or others. In fact, by feeling guilty, one does more harm to oneself than does masturbating. Perpetually feeling guilty and hating yourself for not being able to stop leads to low self-esteem, which in turn can lead to all sorts of maladaptive behaviors: becoming self-absorbed, addicted, putting others down, etc.
I suppose it comes down to one’s religious beliefs, but I am glad that I realized a couple of things about religion and no longer have a need to feel guilty about things that I have no business feeling guilty over. But, to get to the point in which one no longer feels guilty, one must first come to the point in which one understands why statements from church leaders are wrong when they say that masturbation is evil. Just trying to focus on not feeling guilty if you still believe in your heart of hearts that masturbation is wrong.
BCC linked to this artile a few months ago. I found it an interesting read related to this topic.
The Journal of Sexuality and Culture on historical Mormon attitudes towards masturbation.
Great Post Tom!
All this talk of guilt from masturbating is fascinating. No wonder Utah is the highest-consuming state for Prozac. Young and even adult members in their quest to lead masturbatory-free lives are paralyzed by fear that they may do something that is defined as normal and natural by medical practitioners.
That’s right, Whip it. Whip it good.
I also had the typical male masturbation angst as a teenager. Sure I did it. But I also was able to go on a mission as a virgin who figured a little masturbation went a long way toward keeping me on the straight and narrow path (no pun intended but that is an ironically funny phrase in this context).
I masturbated on my mission. Not often, maybe once every few months. It relieved a little stress, which outweighed any residual guilt I thought I should be having. I even accidentally discovered proof that one of my companions also indulged in the little secret (I’ll spare you the details…not as disgusting as you might imagine however). So I wasn’t alone. We never talked about it and like Tom’s story with the Zone leader, I acted like I never knew.
Fast forward a few years and I’m a happily married guy to a woman who also enjoyed the natural release of masturbation as a teenager and college student. We confessed to this fact early on in the marriage. It made for a good laugh not a salacious story.
Today, we actually have incorporated masturbation into our lovemaking. Not all the time, but as a variation that spices things up. Frankly, it has made our sex life better and both of us more confident in our own skin.
We are not vain people. We’re not renting porn movies and acting out the scenes. We haven’t installed mirrors on the ceilings or a stripper pole in the corner of the room. We’re just a fairly normal young Mormon couple who have become comfortable enough with ourselves, each other, and the concept of masturbation to remove any guilt from the practice. Today, we use it as a) an enhancement to our love life and b) a great stress reliever.
We don’t share this tidbit with our Bishop because a) we live the Law of Chastity (and the other Laws too)and b) it’s none of his damn business.
When I have children, I will tell them to say the same thing to any Bishop who takes the line of questioning too far (we’ll determine boundaries long before that interview ever begins).
(Climbs on soapbox)
If I can offer one suggestion, it would be for all of us to focus on the things that matter most (family, kindness, honesty, community, the peaceful example of Christ).
Masturbation is definitely not one of them.
(climbs off soapbox, apologizes for lengthy post)
I am so confused in this regard.
I have continued this practice for nearly two years now. However, I have spent nearly my whole life sick of guilt and embarrassment for the act of masturbation. When I was little i “played w/ myself” but mostly out of curiosity not sexual fulfillment. I did not feel guilty about it in the slightest until an Aaronic priesthood lesson as a Deacon. The lesson shattered my world and mind. Tremendous guilt overcame me but i kept it to myself; I did stop “touching myself” but the guilt ensued for years. I finally confessed to my Bishop before my mission and I felt so much better.
Nevertheless, while on my mission I began having awkward situations where I would wake up in the middle of “wet dreams” and the tension would be very strong. I resisted for a time but lost the battle one night. I didnt touch myself or anything it was mostly mental(not fantasies) with me allowing myself to let my body finish what it started while sleeping. The problem continued and I felt so guilty. I learned that masturbation allowed me to sleep easier but made the guilt magnify ten fold. I confessed to my mission president and he told me to forget about it and not do it again.
I sincerely had the full intention of doing so but with each passing day the sexual tension would grow continually strong. While tracting I would have continuous erections that would not go down for the life of me. It was difficult to focus. At night, I would often times wake up every 15-45 minutes at the brink of orgasm and hold it back. Sexually aroused constantly and lacking sleep I sometimes felt like I was going crazy. I continued to confess to the MP and he gave me advice.
I thought for sure I would be sent home each time and potentially excommunicated if I failed.
I failed and don’t know what to do now. I masturbate regularly and am overwhelmed with guilt again in my life. I have received priesthood blessings, fasted (as long as 48 hours), prayed (to tears at times), I am a workaholic trying to avoid masturbation and am taking many credit hours of school, and many other things. I have even avoided sleeping in order to avoid my most tempted moment of the day. I feel that I have tried everything and wish I could be free of the guilt that stems from an accidental almost involuntary act that occured at the very end of my mission. It makes me think negatively of my mission and church. I know the doctrine of the Christ is true in my heart. I know this story is long and may even seem unbelievable but it is true.
I suppose I seek advice from anyone willing to give it or maybe I just needed to express myself openly.
I do nearly everything one is supposed to do to be considered a good “mormon” except in the secret confines of my bedroom when trying to sleep. Most think I am but I don’t feel it. As a 22-year old, I don’t practice in illicit sex, pornography or anything of the such but I feel unworthy to date because surely any good mormon girl would never do such an activity or be accepting of someone who has done such a thing or currently engages in it. I also prohibit myself from going to the temple. Put on top of this the high expectations my leadership has for me. I currently serve as an EQ president.
After contemplating such actions as castration and even suicide I fell into the diappointing realization that I may never overcome this problem and now question if I need to. I feel cheated, I was willing to do anything and everything to overcome it and somehow I always fail. Am I losing the spirit or am I ok? I sincerly don’t know. As I said, I am confused. Anyone who thinks it is ok, then I would ask how does one let go of the feelings of guilt and shame?
This was a little lengthy but I really feel I needed to say this even if nobody responds. Some of the above statements were helpful for my psyche and would hope that future comments may help as well.
Struggling, You sound like a wonderful faithful young man. Will you please go to this site and read some of the information you find there, especially that of the current medical profession? You must take all of my advice with a grain of salt, since I am not a Church leader or even a male holding the priesthood. But if you were my own son I would advise you to try an experiment for several weeks of relieving yourself whenever you wish instead of holding back. For a while it will increase, but after a while you will quite naturally feel less of an urge to masturbate. I am quite sure you will feel less pressure in all other areas of your Church and school work as well. Please continue to counsel with the Lord himself who gave you these natural urges. Go ahead and attend the Temple. Tell him what you are doing. I think you will feel his love and understanding. Good luck to you.
I agree with Bored in Vernal. I agree wholeheartedly, entirely, and emphatically with Bored in Vernal. I have a son close to your age, and I would tell him the exact same thing BiV would tell her son, and has told you.
The problem, friend, isn’t masturbating. It’s toxic shame. The shame is poisoning you, and it’s unnecessary.
“The problem, friend, isn’t masturbating. It’s toxic shame. The shame is poisoning you, and it’s unnecessary.”
I could not agree more with this. Struggling, you are a normal guy, with normal needs. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. And you are not doing anything bad. I think BiV’s suggested plan of completely going with your needs (ie, listening to your body instead of denying it) will mean you will soon find the right balance in your life. I think there is little happiness or relaxation in your life right now, and that is really sad. You’re young, and you should really be enjoying your life.
Just a snippet from the site BiV directed you to:
“What we found was men who ejaculated most (more than five times a week) in their 20s, 30s and 40s had about a third less prostate cancer risk than men in the lowest category of ejaculation.”
There’s more, but you can read it yourself. In case you don’t already know this, the bloggernacle pretty regularly hashes out the issue of masturbation (here’s one good thread: http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=798 where someone was also feeling like they shouldn’t do it - most commenters said she should, LOL) and there seem to be far more everyday good Mormons who say it’s fine, we should do it as we need to, than those who say you shouldn’t. Meaning, this is not a black-and-white issue, so allow yourself some serious leeway in this area.
Most of all, try the experiment of listening to, and getting in touch with (no pun intended
your body for a while. It won’t mean you’re a “natural man”/enemy to God. It’s just that, right now, you’re giving *all* the weight to the notion that masturbation is wrong and you must avoid it no matter how bad it’s hurting you. Add some balance to that equation - let your body *also* tell you what it needs.
I’m also pretty sure that there are plenty of nice, smart, interesting Mormon women who will be happy to date a guy like you. You seem pretty sharp. Good luck to you!
Just had to add my favorite quote from the thread I linked - this is from a guy I used to know, and someone I really admire, who’s stuck with the church through amazingly trying personal circumstances for many years.
“The guilt you feel will do real damage, unlike the masturbation itself. Lose the guilt, and all will be well with you again…And once you lose the guilt, you actually will find you don’t need to do it as often as you once did. It’s called maturity.”
Good luck, Struggling. I understand where you are coming from. The leaders preach against masturbation even though most members ignore them and realize they are just old and uninformed. Take it from me. I wish I had realized this sooner. I spent decades as a frustrated single trying to ignore biology because some bishop said so. THIS IS YOUR LIFE. Do NOT cede it to someone with an agenda. This is one area in which the Church hurts people who are just doing what they have been told is right.
I also wanted to say that your mental, emotional and sexual health are FAR more important than the opinions of old men who have been married 50 years.
I sincerely had the full intention of doing so but with each passing day the sexual tension would grow continually strong. While tracting I would have continuous erections that would not go down for the life of me. It was difficult to focus. At night, I would often times wake up every 15-45 minutes at the brink of orgasm and hold it back. Sexually aroused constantly and lacking sleep I sometimes felt like I was going crazy.
Struggling - Compare these symptoms (which sound absolutely miserable )with what it would be like to just relieve yourself, go to sleep, and go on living guilt-free. You would be a much more healthy, happy, and productive individual. You really have to take responsibility for your own personal morality. Define your own boundaries, and recognize that personal health deserves far more weight than abstaining from an activity that harms nobody, including yourself. Recognize that living free of all this guilt and pressure would liberate you–you’d be able to live a more productive life and give yourself more fully to those people and causes that you cherish (such as your Elders Quorum). And the secret living guilt-free is clearly not sexual repression. You’ve tried this for years, and its effect on your life has been quite detrimental.
As a 22-year old, I don’t practice in illicit sex, pornography or anything of the such
Exactly! You sound like a very admirable, upstanding person.
I feel unworthy to date because surely any good mormon girl would never do such an activity or be accepting of someone who has done such a thing or currently engages in it.
You’d be surprised. My wife was a model “good Mormon girl,” and she’s actually rather apathetic when it comes to masturbation. I’m convinced that her relaxed approach to masturbation actually helped her maintain healthy attitudes about sexuality, which have definitely contributed to our relationship and have helped me overcome my own insecurities (which chiefly arose from the messages I received from the Church about masturbation, sex, and sexual desire).
Trust me, you wouldn’t want a spouse with hang-ups about sexuality. Sex is one of the top reasons for divorce in America. President Kimball said: “Divorces often occur over sex…. If you study the divorces, as we have had to do in these past years, you will find there are [many] reasons. Generally, sex is the first. They did not get along sexually. They may not say that in the court. They may not even tell that to their attorneys, but that is the reason” (Kimball, Teachings of Spencer W.
Kimball, p. 312).
I would suggest that there’s a connection between the messages LDS youth are sent about sexuality and sexual dysfunction in LDS marriages. Overcoming insecurities about sexuality (including the cultural taboo attached to masturbation) is key to building a healthy sexual relationship with your future spouse.
What’s tragic is that you, as an especially faithful and devoted Latter-day Saint, suffer the most for what’s really an innocuous practice. “Luke warm” members are capable of living healthier lives, because they are not so burdened with shame. But you–a returned missionary, an Elders Quorum president, a devoted member of the Church, and all-around great guy–are the one that suffers the most from outdated teachings and cultural misunderstandings.
Struggling
Remember that many, if not all, of the men in the church masterbated when they were young. Some still do. The list includes your own bishop and stake president. Don’t give them the power to make you feel guilty over this.
Give yourself a break and learn how to give up your own hangups with masterbation. I know how hard that can be to do, I’ve been there. But you’re OK. There is nothing wrong with you. The real problem you have is your guilt. Your guilt can become problematic for you as you grow older. I am 48 years old and I still feel guilt/anger over this issue. (This thread about masterbation has actually been very therapeutic for me.) The prospect of someone else passing through life feeling about himself as I did, scares the hell out of me.
You seem to be a very decent person, who is doing many things well. Focus on those things and build from there. And I know this may seem trite, but pray about it. I think you will find God to be very loving and understanding. And maybe you will realize that you are doing just fine.
Did any of you ever see the movie about Kinsey (entitled, oddly enough, Kinsey) where Kinsey decides after all his research that there is no such thing as a boy who does not masturbate. Then he has a heart to heart with his preacher father and finds out that his father, in fact, never masturbated. The reasons came right out of those Victorian handbooks for raising prudent young men. Crazy underwear for the day, and restraints for the night.
Struggling, you might also consider talking to a psychologist at your school. Nearly all colleges/universities have a clinic. You have already paid for the services through your student fees. Go talk to them and see what a professional says. Take it from someone who also considered suicide to end the guilt: It ain’t worth it. Guilt has its place, but it shouldn’t rule your life. Not like this.
Well, if you attend BYU, any psychologist you see at the school’s counseling center is probably obligated to uphold LDS standards. They still do a wonderful service for students, but be careful.
Yes, Steve M is right about that. I have heard mixed things about counseling in that area. I don’t know what things are like there currently.
As it is with many who are afflicted/blessed with same-sex attraction, it strikes me that the masturbators who suffer the most are most Christlike — the pure in heart, the poor in spirit, the meek, those that hunger and thirst after righteousness, the persecuted, etc. “Struggling” sounds like the tender-hearted epitome of a model Saint, and yet like many pure-in-heart Gays, cannot overcome the natural and God-given blessing of sexual desire. The problem is not the desire, but the bastardization of the definition of “sin” and the corruption of the commandments.
If masturbation is indeed against the Lord’s commandments, then this is yet another case where obedience is hazardous to one’s health.
While it’s true that the LDS church has its good qualities, the damage it does to the pure in heart–those trying to live the Gospel to the fullest-is astounding. One would think that Church leaders would be sympathetic towards those like Struggling. Instead, all there is is more condemnation.
I will return to church the day the Prophets and apostles admit that they too masturbated (and probably still do) and that it’s a biological imperative that has nothing to do with sin.
Wow…I must say that I am really surprised by all the helpful comments. I have never actually used any sort of blog before but am now glad that I decided to give it a try.
As for all the advice and opinions expressed; I would say Thank You!
I have decided to give BiV’s “grain of salt” idea a try. Although I am somewhat hesistant (I have been fighting this for awhile now and it is going to be difficult to just say, ok, I am going to do this) I believe that this is the only logical thing to do. Trying to look at my situation from an outside perspective I lean towards agreeing with the thought that my guilt is actually the most dangerous problem at this time. I really dont care if I masturbate or not anymore, I just want to be happy and enjoy life again. Anyway I will begin to “relieve myself” when I feel the need to and not give it a second thought and attempt to leave the guilt behind. Hopefully this is the best way to go but I have prayed about it and frankly I have done everything that my leadership has told me to do in regard to this situation and I still cant stop and I feel terrible. (However, I did find a link on lightplanet.com and a supposed talk by Mark E. Petersen; It was somewhat disturbing, and I have definitely not had my roommates tie my hands to the bedposts so that I wont masturbate.) I kind of hoped that that talk was not real. Most of the talks I found on LDS.org seemed to be vague on the subject just lumping it in with numerous other sins and Kimball’s statement that masturbation will lead me to be gay seems fallace. I feel these are two different issues that could become intertwined but not the same. Same-sex attraction is far more intricate than that. Nevertheless, I tried hymns, memorizing scripture, reading scripture, and much more and BiV’s thought sounds like as good an idea as any other and many seemed to second it.
I also looked at the various links that were posted. They were helpful. I will have to ponder the idea of seeing a couselor. The BYU issue isnt an issue for me because I attend a liberal school and I am 99.9% positive that they do not have hang ups about this. The opportunity to express myself here has actually been helpful to my mental and emotional health the last two days. I have felt much more relaxed.
I hope I addressed everyone’s suggestions; if i missed one let me know. I will probably continue to post as it has helped me a lot to express myself and hear others consoling opinions.
~Thanks
Hi Struggling,
President Kimball (Elder Kimball) and Elder Peterson did a LOT of damage to a LOT of young people and single adults. It’s absolutely true that President Kimball said that masturbation led to homosexuality and Elder Peterson most certainly did suggesrt harmful ways to curb masturbation.
Only follow the prophet(s) when it is in your best interest to do so. Never let ANYONE tell you what you can and can’t do with your own body, in the privacy of your own chambers.
Hi Struggling,
It will also help you to read as much as possible about nature, both narrowly about human sexuality and broadly about all sort of things. For example, the Nature documentaries are excellent. Many libraries carry them on VHS and DVD.
The more you know about biology, the better you will understand yourself. I love Frans de Waal’s book Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes, for example, because I am a politics junkie.
Maybe I havent given the experiment long enough but I feel very hypocritical right now. Like I am living a double life. I felt this before but even more so now; because I am willingly giving in now. The guilt is inescapble. After studying the issue(thanks to some of the links above), logically it would seem that it is ok, but for whatever reason it just does not feel right and on the flip side I can’t stop. I can go long periods of time resisting but the longer I go the weaker I am to resist and the easier it is to fail; to the point where it will literally take just a few seconds of weakness.
I suppose I need to talk to someone about this but I know what family and friends are going to tell me and I really dont want to confess this issue to another priesthood leader especially when I dont know how drastically each leader will resond. I feel isolated and alone plus prayer seems to make me feel empty. I want nothing more to enjoy life.
It does help to have this outlet of writing a post. I find it somewhat therapeutic.
Struggling,
You may not agree with me on this, but I believe our feelings of guilt have far more to do with our personal thoughts and perceptions than the influence of some other power or being (God, the Spirit, the Devil, etc.). We interpret life events and our behavior in light of our personal definition of morality. When we do something that we interpret as being wrong or immoral, we will feel guilty, regardless of any external or supernatural influence (and regardless of whether or not the action actually was immoral).
It’s hard to change these thought habits. It takes time to rework our value systems and personal codes of morality. For years, you’ve told yourself that masturbation is immoral, and you’ve suffered immense guilt as a consequence. Even if you want to believe otherwise, your mind has been habituated to thinking about masturbation in a certain way. It will take time to retrain your mind to think about the habit in a more positive, healthy way.
But it is the CHURCH that tells youth and single people that masturbation is immoral. If people are neurotic and crazy, obsessing over this so called sin, the blame lies squarely on the Church.
Some of you may have a different take on this, but I don’t think it’s helpful to “Struggling” to keep telling him the Church is blameworthy or that the GA’s are evil old men. Obviously he has a good relationship with the Church and I think this is a problem that can be solved without having to change his good feelings for the Church. There will have to be a subtle difference, however, in how he interprets his personal response to counsel.
I think Struggling’s Mission President was trying to gently cue him in on this when he told him to “forget about it.” I think there are things in the Church which we should certainly try, but also adjust to our own personal circumstances. We should also be aware that not all worldly teachings are false and harmful.
To Struggling: I am just wondering if you might be feeling any better *physically*? Also, don’t ever feel bad about seeking out a counselor or even a medical doctor for some advice.
This is not an easy road to tread, which is why we have this site.
Currently I am doing a lot better physically. I am able to focus in my schooling and spend more quality time focused on various extracurricular activities that I am involved in. So in essence, when I have relieved the apparent bodily needs I have been able to eliminate one aspect of the problem(the physical) but I still deal with the mental and emtional backlash.
Even while taking care of my physical needs I am not “relieving myself” everyday because I dont feel like I need to but in my head I begin to think, “oh, finally I am going to be rid of this,” but then I find that it comes back, which I logically dont think that it will ever go away, but nonetheless I instinctively set my standards that way. This ultimately leads to failure because I can fight the initial urges but when it becomes so overwhelming(like I can’t sleep) I eventually give in. I guess I just can’t figure out in my head whether or not I should be able to control this. I am the type of person that thinks that I can do anything that I put my mind to and this is probably the first time that I have not been able to.
When I think back on my struggle with this I realize that I have given every ounce of will that I have to winning the struggle and living the standards that have been presented to me. Yet, I still fail.
Furthermore, I here these stories of other people who have overcome this issue and I just sit back and wonder how they did it. They give their advice but I have done all those things and more.
When it comes down to it the damage that has been the most destructive has been my diminished lack of confidence combinded with my feelings that I am not acceptable before the Lord, the church, family, friends, and even myself no matter what other good things I am doing or have done.
anon,
I hear what you are saying. Really. But I am not buying it all. Sure the Church, and its leaders, have given some bad advice on the topic. But at some point we need to deal with it on a personal level. If someone was carrying around the same amount of guilt for not having a years supply of food, not having done their visiting teaching, or having paid tithing on the net rather than gross income, you may be less accusatory of the church.
I am not in anyway saying the leaders are blameless, only that we as individuals seem to be cafeteria self-guilters and self-loathers, just as we were/are cafeteria mormons.
No, I would also blame the Church if someone felt excessively guilty for not having a year’s supply of food IF having a year’s supply of food were considered “second only to murder”, unclean, the pre-cursor to homosexuality, etc., etc., etc.
The Church calls masturbation a sin when it is clearly not. Someone striving to be as sin-free as possible–especially an active single gay or straight Mormon, is going to have a lot of guildt and shame about giving in to sexual urges.
I once asked my single’s ward bishop, “How would you feel if you had to repent every time you had sex?” That’s how single adults feel every time they masturbate.
Yes, indeed, it’s crazy-making, and I DO blame the Church.
Struggling,
I think I know where you are coming from. Like you, I took the Church and leaders at their words. I took the whole thing TOO SERIOUSLY.
Once you realize the leaders are just old men living in an inherited system trying to do their best, you will feel less anxious about “being obedient” that that manner. You will realize that your health and sanity matter more than whether you qualify for a temple recommend (and many singles ward bishops in my tenure as a member did not give recommends to admitted masturbators).
You will realize that it’s nobody’s business what you do in the privacy of your own home, and that you don’t owe it to anyone to “confess” your private sexual matters.
You will realize that the leaders themselves masturbate and either lie about it, rationalize it away, don’t think twice about it, or justify it because they’re married and you are not.
You will realize that the church and some of the members often refuse to take the blame for some of the pain it causes and helps to foster. Teens who commit suicide over their sexuality–masturbation issues, homosexuality, etc., also took the church too seriously. Don’t commit emotional or social suicide over this.
IT’S NOT WORTH IT.
Struggling–here’s one last thing: As Mayan Elephant said, the leaders’ words are just “advice.”
Take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt, and know that the church gives just good advice and bad advice–not commandments written in stone by the finger of God.
Some advice works out for a few people. Some advice is flat out HARMFUL, wrong, and bad for a lot of people.
Ten percent of your income? Good or bad advice depending on who you are, how much you earn, where you live, your poverty level, etc.
No premarital sex, ever, including masturbation? Maybe good advice for young adolescents, but after that point yu have to do what works best, especially if you never marry or have a partner.
etc.,
etc.
Struggling, stop thinking about it. Stop trying to stop. Stop trying to control yourself, (except in the sense that you wait until you’re home alone.) Just let things happen, and if you think it’s helpful, observe how you feel. DETACH from the process. Think of it as blowing your nose if you have an allergy. Yes, it’s nice to think that one day the allergies will go away, but it’s just blowing your nose. It’s not a moral failing or a weakness. It’s not something you need to TRY to repress. It’s just the way your body is working right now.
When I referred to the shame you are having about this as Toxic, that word was used deliberately. It’s poisoning you.
Don’t try to suppress the ideas that come to you after. But do try to recognize them as distorted thinking. You are not thinking clearly about this. When you find yourself thinking that you’re weak and a failure, remind yourself that masturbating and your two are not related. You can control your thoughts.
Coincidentally, the latest episode of Mr. Deity deals with this issue. It helps you understand the premise if you watch the entire series. Besides, they are hilarious.
My advice would be similar to Steve M’s in #89. You’ve studied some articles on the widespread acceptance and normalcy of masturbation, now you need to read some articles about guilt, where it comes from, how the mind works, etc. (Can anyone point to a good article or site?)
One can logically understand something, but our subconscious, our psyche, our id or ego or whatever is a totally different animal. For example, I can logially understand that walking under a ladder is not bad luck, but if I’ve been conditioned and taught from childhood that bad things will happen if I walk under a ladder, I’ll probably think twice when I approach a ladder. My mind says, “Don’t be ridiculous, it’s just a ladder,” but something deeply rooted in my psyche (something toxic) says otherwise.
The good news is that one can root out these irrational fears and toxic teachings over time. It helps if one walks under lots of ladders, talks to others who have overcome ladder fear, and reads what the professionals say. Having done all that, there will always be people you love who will tell you “Struggling, don’t walk under any ladders today, it’s bad luck,” but you’ll eventually be able to smile at them in the warm knowledge that you know the truth about ladders for yourself.
It takes time. It will take a lot longer than a couple of weeks for you to find the right equilibrium, (emotionally/psychologically more so than physically/sexually), with this issue. And fear/anxiety will only exacerbate the problem.
I really am trying to just think of it as just something that just needs to be takin’ care of every once in awhile but it is difficult to accept. In the past I spoke to someone about masturbation and the person told me that it is an action that can be avoided just like avoiding pornography. We choose what we do, if we get trapped in it and cant stop then it is an addiction. I guess what I really am conflicted with is whether or not I should be able to control this problem completely. Do I just not have a strong enough will? Am I addicted? Am I in denial about the addiction? Or is this really just a case similar to using the restroom?, you can hold it back for a little while but ultimately you just gotta go. I am not trying to be vulgar, I just wonder why if some people can go without and choose not to do it than why I can’t? I am not sure if I am really expressing myself and saying what I am really trying to say but I think that is close enough.
I really dont feel that I ever made a choice to masturbate; if anything it was the complete opposite after my upbringing and understanding of church teaching; it just inexplicably happened.
In the past I spoke to someone about masturbation and the person told me that it is an action that can be avoided just like avoiding pornography.
Some people can avoid it. Some people can’t. Those that can’t aren’t weaker or less worthy than those who can. Some people can go forever without ever eating black licorice jelly beans. Some people love the stuff and would suffer endless torment if they had a bag of them in their pocket that they could never eat.
I guess what I really am conflicted with is whether or not I should be able to control this problem completely.
Note how you still perceive this as a “problem”. It’s very difficult to rewire how we see a thing.
Do I just not have a strong enough will? Am I addicted? Am I in denial about the addiction?
Addiction isn’t as simple as craving something so badly that it overpowers your will. An addict trying to will themselves out of their behavior generally fails because it’s not a problem of will. Addiction is much more complex.
If you are addicted, then it’s because you’re ashamed of masturbation, not because you’re morally weak.
Out of the Shadows is and excellent book about the root causes of sexual addiction. One caveat: the author pushes 12-step programs (at least in the edition I read), but don’t listen. Those programs have a spectacularly low success rate. They help some people, but not all. In any case, addicts don’t need them. A good counselor is a much better route. Otherwise, the book is great.
I just wonder why if some people can go without and choose not to do it than why I can’t?
The more important question is if and why you should.
I really dont feel that I ever made a choice to masturbate; if anything it was the complete opposite after my upbringing and understanding of church teaching; it just inexplicably happened.
It’s no more inexplicable than children learning to suck their thumbs (or their pacifiers) without adult intervention. No one taught me how to masturbate; I discovered it on my own. It fulfilled needs that I acquired at about the time that I discovered it.
Hmm, I’d hate to see what would happen if we believed that sucking on thumbs and pacifiers was a sin, a tool of Satan to draw our babies down to hell. I can just imagine the shame. *shudder*
I can see where you are coming from and what your explanation is. I admit that it is very difficult to just drop past notions. I mostly agree with your baby comparison because when I was a kid, pre-teen, i would masturbate not to orgasm I am not sure if I could’ve at the time and I never felt guilty about it. I did it all the time. I only felt guilty after getting the aaronic priesthood and attentding deacons quorum and hearing a lesson on masturbation. that is when the problem started. I never touched myself again throughout my teenage years. I had it under control and eventually never even thought about it anymore until I inexplicably lost control one night before I even knew what happened I had masturbated(kind of); the experience ultimately led to more traditional masturbation if there exists such a thing.
I have been masturbating for most of my life now. I’m a 34 year old single female. I felt very guilty about it when I was younger - even when I didn’t know what it was called. Eventually when I understood what I was doing I felt guilty enough to not do it on Sunday. Somehow in my mind that made it okay. Now that I’m an adult, I don’t feel guilty about it. We are sexual beings. Well maybe a little guilty. I panic when I think, what if I died tomorrow and my mom had to go through my house to pack up my belongings. How sad that what we have been taught has led me that kind of thinking. I’ve noticed that most of these posts appear to be by men but I think there are many mormon women out there who do it or would if they understood their own bodies.
iamme,
it is kind of sad that you still feel guilty, albeit in a lesser way, about something that has been a part of your life for so long.
I personally have not spoken with any mormon women in regard to this (that would maybe be a little weird) but I do instinctively think in my mind that most dont(Do they even address this with the women?I have never heard anything about it) and that makes it difficult for me to have any sort of relationship with anybody because I feel that if she were to find out that she would think that I am some sort of pervert who is a traitor to the priesthood or something like that.
After looking up some information on Sex addiction i must say I am somewhat conflicted on this issue and how it pertains to me. I dont believe that the masturbation would have any affect on me if it were not for the guilt. I dont do it enough to get in the way of everyday activities unless I feel so guilty that I dont want to do anything. I personally dont think I have an addiction; well maybe my priesthood leadership thinks that I do.
The problem with masturbation is that I dont see where the masturbation revelation ever occurred, and if it was a revelation why didnt they get it right in regard to health issues. First, there was moderation and then some GA’s stated, in their opinion, that it was wrong, then all of a sudden Packer speaks and it is doctrine. This is clearly influenced by McConkie and Kimball. Both stated their opinions in opinion books. Mormon Doctrine has been revised more times than I would care to count(hardly seems like a valid source) and Kimball was only a SP when he wrote his book. I do think they were trying to help and it was an innocent mistake. Mistakes happen, Joseph Smith had many ideas that never came to fruition the way he had planned. Peter and Paul had disagreements and were both apostles. There are plenty of examples of men and/or women who have been called of God and have made a misjudgment or two. It is normal, the only one that needed to be perfect was Jesus.
I do believe that if the church stepped up and showed some fortitude in this regard and presented it correctly that the church membership would be forgiving. Anyone who said that the church was suddenly not true just because a group of men made a mistake(s) is hardly fair when taken in full light and knowledge of follies of other God chosen people; this in my opinion tells me that these people would be being somewhat naive or ignorant in regard to church history.
I also believe that it is best for the leadership to teach the gospel in the most simple way possible. With the growing membership it is becoming virtually impossible to micromanage the members i.e. masturbation among other issues, many of which have been dealt with or forgotten. Scripture is clear in regard to the avoidance of adultery, fornication, lying, jealousy, the need of baptism, love, charity, and many other things; why try to explain anymore than these basic values. Anyway, that is just my opinion. I also see this as a general trend in reviewing the conference talks over the last century. Read any of the talks over the last ten years and you will see the very general teachings that are presented w/ very few exceptions.
I wrote this on another forum, but it might help.
Another long dialogue; sorry
I learned on my mission that truth is always supported by truth. If a particular subject or idea is true but currently revelation cannot explain why it is true then one should not attempt to explain the veracity of the truth with false notions and personal opininos but avoid explanation and just state it as a statement of truth. This is like the first vision of Joseph Smith. I can testify with the spirit that Joseph Smith saw God and the Son and state it as truth(from a church perspective) and who can dispute that. They werent there and they dont know how came to that knowledge. It is truth. But if I were to tell the story of the first vision and then begin to explain my opinion on how it happened going into the physics and how radiation has been found in that area of Palmyra due to the appearance of God to Joseph Smith then obviously the spirit is gone and one cannot feel the spirit testify of the truth of the first vision.
This is what has happened with the masturbation issue. Leaders stated that masturbation was a sin(an apparent statement of truth) but then backed it up with false statements. Even if masturbation is a sin, their false statements surrounding the truth depreciated the truth value and the ability for the spirit to testify to ones heart that masturbation is a sin. The spirit always testifies of the truth. If they came out today and said that masturbation was a sin, stated it as a truth, then said that most of the statements in regard to masturbation are not true but nevertheless the act is still a sin then a member of the church would no longer have any other way to dispute this doctrine other then the ugly track record.
That being said, it is my opinion that within the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints a revelation should precede opinion. When revelation is given GA’s, Stake Presidents, and members alike can discuss their opinions in regard to the revelation i.e. why it exists, how it works, why we need to, but they are only opinions not revelation or doctrine. They are small things that can help augment or solidfy the testimony of an individual.
The real problem with the church’s stance on masturbation is the apparent fact that opinions led to supposed revelation or doctrine. It should go the other way around. Furthermore the opinions were false. Mental insanity, blindness, etc were not true. These became the basis for the eventual complete demonizing of masturbation. I also believe that if the church did decide to loosen up on the subject or change their stance on this issue and explained it just as I have but maybe with more clarity and eloquence then the members of the church would be more than willing to except their mistake. I dont know if they every will. It appears that with the disappearnce of the subject from the Youth manual, although it does appear to refer to it, and from the Church Handbook of Instructions that the church leadership just want ignore the subject. Sadly, the lower leadership is not ignoring the problem and many are being subjected to extreme guilt and pain. If anyone felt any more guilt or pain than that which I had I am afraid to think what would happen to them. Or the idea that some young person will not believe or give up on God because of a common nearly universal behavior that doesnt hurt anybody unless they are virtually made to feel that they have. All that information and I didnt find any address by the church to women and masturbation. why not? It appears that according to the journal research on masturbation conformity that more women are accepting of the behavior then the men. If that is true why dont they talk about this in women’s conference or something? Interesting huh, lets attack the young men blatantly make them feel terrible but make the women suffer in silence and wonderment.
wow…this was a lot. Nobody is going to want to read this but I hope that if you did that it was interesting. Remember that truth is always supported by truth, not fallacies.
Also…take a look at this article, not perfect but does present another opinion.
http://students.eng.fiu.edu/~denver/pdfs/Masturbation.pdf
Struggling,
I would also say that your view of a “normal” mormon girl may be quite different than others. Don’t search for normal - search for a partner, someone who appreciates ALL of you. Many mormon girls aren’t taught to appreciate gloriousness of their bodies. If you are a passionate person, it will be important for you to have a passionate relationship with your future wife. It’s okay to want that. Do you know anyone with a drug, alcohol, or gambling addiction? If you do, you will know what an addiction is - the devestation to your life and those who love you is incomparable. You don’t have an addiction, you have a healthy sexual desire. Unfortunately, guilt can be taught just as hatred is taught. It is difficult to overcome those teachings but it is possible. I have a very successful life, I’m not addicted and I do it on almost a daily basis- it relieves stress, helps me fall asleep, helps my migraines, and helps me appreciate my body in a healthy way. You are not a pervert and you are not a traitor. I hope that somehow you can move past those thoughts and not feel shame for your body and your feelings. You’re a good man Charlie Brown.
I haven’t felt guilty about it since I was a teenager. I felt a little guilty about when I at Ricks going to college. But those days are long gone. I find it interesting that so few of the women’s talks and lessons, General RS & YW meetings, etc. are silent on the subject compared to PH general meetings. I think it is because the GAs assume that women aren’t sexual beings and let me tell you, we are. And there is nothing wrong with that. Our talks focus on have a baby, have a baby, have a baby! For me the guilt ended as I became more educated and came to truly respect and love myself (no pun intended). In my experience, girls didn’t talk about this amongst themselves so I really don’t know how many out there thought this was normal. It takes women a little more active work to learn about their bodies but I read alot and I like to practice the things I study.
the guilt also ended for me when i realized the leaders are 50 years behind the times and wrong almost as often as they are right.
I think we need to make a distinction between addiction and need. We have many needs. Sexual release is a physiological need. Being unable to totally suppress and ignore this need is not a problem, nor is it a sign of addiction.
I don’t believe it’s as common for women in the Church to receive the kind of anti-masturbation lessons that men are subjected to. There seems to be this perception that masturbation is a male “problem.” While studies indicate that a greater percentage of men masturbate regularly than do women, they still show that a majority of women do masturbate. I believe that many women in the Church masturbate, but we only talk about male masturbation publicly.
I don’t think my wife was subjected to the same “chastity” lessons I received in the Aaronic priesthood years. Consequently, she has a very relaxed attitude about masturbation. And very positive, healthy attitudes about sex in general.
Struggling, you seemed to be plagued with self-doubt. You apparently have a real fear that you are actually a masturbation addict.
Sexual themes are common in OCD and other anxiety disorders/problems (I’m not saying that you have OCD or any other mental illness, but I believe that these conditions are instructive when it comes to self-doubt and anxiety). It’s not uncommon for the sufferer to obsess over whether or not they are homosexual, for instance. Any reasonable third-party observer can clearly tell that these individuals are straight, but they themselves can’t get over the self-doubt that says, “But what if I really am gay?” It’s the “what if” that embodies their self-doubt and the anxiety that it causes.
You seem to be asking yourself, “What if I really am a masturbation addict?” To the rest of us, it doesn’t appear that you have any such problem. But the self-doubt kills you. It gives rise to the anxiety and the guilt. And each time you “fall” and masturbate, you interpret this as a sign that you are not in control of yourself and that you are indeed an addict.
Part of overcoming the guilt is learning to reinterpret your behavior. Currently, when you masturbate you interpret it as a moral failing or a sign of a serious problem, and this is what causes the guilt. If you can train yourself to interpret masturbation as a regular, healthy, morally neutral behavior, then it will not lead to the guilt and anxiety that you are presently experiencing. But this takes time.
“Exposure therapy” may also be helpful. Right now, masturbation (and perhaps sexual feelings in general) is something that triggers a lot of uneasiness for you. Repeated exposure to masturbation (or sexual thoughts, perhaps) helps you realize that many of your fears are unfounded. The exposure helps you become comfortable with the practice and overcome the anxiety and fear currently associated with it.
But take my advice with a grain of salt. I’m not a psychologist or anything. I would still suggest taking advantage of the counseling services that your university probably offers. I would also suggest reading up on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy. While you probably aren’t suffering from the disorders these therapies are designed to treat, I believe they may be informative and helpful. Reading about can help you better understand how the mind works and how you can cope with anxiety and guilt.
And I don’t believe that you need to blame the Church or sacrifice your testimony in this process. You can be a faithful member of the Church and a healthy individual at the same time.
the thing is, church leaders are not saying addiction is wrong. They say masturbation is wrong. They say any kind of self initiated sex outside of marriage is sinful. Masturbation, by definition, is sexual activity. IMO, the church should stay out of the bedrooms of married and single adults. It should also teach teens that masturbation is a GOOD thing, and exploring ones body is important.
oh, and of course the leaders decry addiction as well…
Iamme,
I am not sure which is worse, blatant attacking of the young men or the silent awkwardness with the young women. I suppose it just depends on the person. Even with the priesthood they are somewhat silent. they constantly mention it as a sin that should be avoided but I am remember as a teenager after an aaronic priesthood lesson searching the scriptures and church books on the issue and I never found anything. At the time I just wanted clarification of what it was and if I was doing it. I even confessed to the bishop as a teenager just to be safe(humiliating and not in a good way), since then I found out that I had not masturbated. Most of the info from the church that I have found since coming home from the mission has been utterly useless. I never did come across anything about the women and helping them overcome the habit(just the boys).
I have found more help from health websites and forum’s like this one.
I agree with your statement on addiction; I have family that have had problems with alcohol and drugs and their lives up to today have never been the same. they have lost jobs, spouses, their health, and much more. I hope someday I will fully recover from the guilt. I am getting closer to winning the battle.
Steve M.
I was aware of OCD before this situation came up and I have wondered at times if that is my problem. I did look up the information you suggested. I agree that I dont think I have an OCD; if anything it would a COD, because the “compulsion” is driving the obsession rather than the other way around.
I am becoming more and more aware of my self-doubt issues; it is not just with masturbation and my worthiness but because of my feeling of unworthiness I feel very little self worth. I degrade myself constantly when in reality with all the talents, abilities and career pursuits ranging from athletics, to the arts, to politics I should be struggling with pride and arrogance issues; but rather it is the complete opposite. In the long haul I hope that my eventual ability to overcome this will lead to me being a better person.
the exposure therapy and the counseling really make me nervous because I would be relenquishing my anonymity. I did read some articles on self-exposure and response prevention therapy, but they are very unclear as to how I decide what to expose myself to; maybe I’m thinking too hard; it is just difficult to self-diagnose one’s self.
Struggling, get thee to a professional. I mean it! This is mama bear talking. The secrecy is killing you. Just saying these things out loud to a person trained to help you will help. Together you can design a plan that will help you start telling yourself the truth. The distorted thinking that you are living with because of your shame is what’s making you so unhappy.
Struggling,
FWIW, I think you are remarkably honest–much more so than Church leaders who would tell unmarried people that masturbation is sinful and that it’s something to be avoided, suppressed and controlled.
Any professional would tell you that masturbation is normal. IMO, you only need to give yourself permission.
And there’s nothing wrong with secrets. Most people are secretive/private about their sexual behavior: that’s the nature of it! It’s when people start telling you that you have to “confess” every time you have a sexual experience that things start to go awry mentally.
Just relax, breathe, enjoy your life and your body, and as a wise, wise woman once and often says: “It’s just church…”
Struggling, listen to what Ann (#115) and I (#80) said: Go to a psychologist or other professional therapist. It is not realistic to try to diagnose oneself, whether for OCD or another problem. Even if you find that you do seem to meet the criteria for diagnosis, what then? Isn’t there a saying about that? Something along the lines of, “the doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient?
You need to talk to someone who can give you professional, objective help. The sooner you do it, the better.
the only reason you are having feelings of unworthiness is you believe you are giving in to sin. Is masturbation sinful? Then you have every right to feel guilty and ashamed. If it is not sinful, shame on the Church for demonizing it. As was said before.. most people, especially men, masturbate. Even Church leaders.
Anon #116 - Yes, secrecy/privacy is normal about sexual matters. Shame is not. In this case, I think the secrecy (not privacy really, but secrecy) is reinforcing the shame, and vice versa. With some good cognitive behavioral therapy, Struggling can learn to correct his distorted thinking. I’ve had my own battles with distorted thinking, and just saying “that’s not true!” doesn’t fix the problem.
What a world What a world. I have to give you fair warning about this post in the form of a Tirade alert. I am about to have a tirade. I can’t resist. (hmmmm)
In the mid 1800’s the three main societal ills in America were Masturbation, Homosexuality, and Prostitution. Many many physical ills were attributed to masturbation during that time. The wickedness of it all!!
Whaqt else happened in the mid 1800’s? THE MORMON CHURCH!! Our morality and also much of our doctrine was formed using the raw material of the Victorian era, and it was eagerly promulgated by the unknowing and ashamed brethren of the day.
Another seemingly unknown…Male circumcision was once again re-introduced and practiced by medical doctors in the Victorian era, not as a religious ceremony or as an aid to physical cleanliness, but as an aid in avoiding the sin of “masturbatory insanity”.
During that time many children and women wore special machiavellian underwear designed to help them avoid the insanity, paleness, stupor, and ill health that was associated with masturbation. According to “authorities” it was simple to spot a masturbator as a pale sickly youth, absent of vigor and intelligence. Not many years ago we heard GAs say that it encouraged and predicted homosexuality. It appears that we now have to choose between our Mormon falsehoods and Satan’s lies. (hmmm)
Fellas and Gals, lets call it what it is. The fear and shame of masturbation is pretty much insanity, and harks back to the idea that God made mistakes with our bodies and sexual urges that we, in our infinite wisdom,are required to “fix”.
Sexuality is dirty and base because the Victorians were trained to fear it. Life for a Victorian was as warped as it gets. Unfortunately, Mormons haven’t yet been able to muster up enough revelation lately to rid themselves of this purely social/cultural insanity that has followed them through their history like a bad odor.
Lets get with the program. Human worthiness doesn’t have very much to do with Victorianism and sexual mal adjustment. Just the opposite. Masturbatory insanity indeed. The only Masturbatory insanity I know of is the insanity that you should be terminally ashamed of your own wonderful sexuality.
The emphasis on this type of nuttiness is one of the biggest detractors of real Christianity IMHO. Better to concentrate on helping one another and accepting Christ (per Stephen Robinson) than concentrate on some sort of styled morality that harms no one. I have enough problems ( I suspect I am not alone) being Christian that I refuse to waste my time worrying about my “little factory”.
Simon
The Church did a number on my (growing up in ’70s/’80s) generation. Particularly among those remaining single, there are MAJOR sexual hangups because of the Church’s misinformation, prevarication, intimidation, threats, and lies about masturbation and pre-marital sex.
The leaders lamennt the delay of marriage, young divorce, and other problems that the church itself creates by insisting on Draconian interviews and invasive procedures.
A friend of mine had her first sexual experience recently at 38. She was finally in love for the first time in her life, and for the first time allowed herself to relax and enjoy what she had denied for such a long time. The worst thing in the world? Next to murder? This is what she was made to believe when she felt guilty enough to confess the next weekend at church. A court was called, she had to “out” the 45 year old former bishop’s counselor to his bishop several stakes away, and she was threatened with excommunication. She had to relate her “sins” to a bunch of old men in a room who were probably enjoying her confessions a little too much.
The Church has far too much say in what single people do alone or with each other.
It is TIME TO STOP THE INSANITY.
I dont know what to say? If I could work out in my mind what it is I am thinking and what I believe in reference to this situation then I would not have ever posted here. I needed an outlet to be able to express myself without feeling threatened with being told I am vile and lose my recommend. This site has allowed me to do so.
I originally posted here in ignorance, I did not know how hotly contested this issue was within the “Mormon community.” Now I know. Since then I have read and learned a lot about this(thanks to everyone); now I only need to move on.
It is difficult; I have believed for over ten+ years that this was a sin(when I found out what it was). I now have logically come to understand that it should not be a big deal. However, deep down I still believe that it is a sin, it is engrained in me. Also, based on many of my personal experiences, ranging to the simple and the mundance to relatively extraordinary, I cannot deny my testimony of many things within the church. Because of my very strong and persistent testimony I really do want to believe that the brethren are right in regard to masturbation. I want to overcome, I wanted to overcome; constant failure brought much distress, pain, and depression. That being said I do realize that they are just men and they can make mistakes from time to time; they also do not always agree.
I know that with the current leadership over me that I would be disciplined in some form or fashion because of this problem. I have always been one to study things out and “figure them out” and be able to explain them. I have dedicated many many hourse studying the scriptures and from various readings that are found in the church. Never has any topic eluded my answer-findings more than that of masturbation. It is like the church was hiding answers. I could not find them. I personally do not believe this to be a sin anymore. I still doubt myself and my rationale; do I only think that because I want to? or am I not strong enough to follow the teachings in full?
that is where my confused state is at currently.
the recommendation to see a professional counselor is being highly considered and I am currently looking into it and what the university has to offer. Wish me luck.
I do feel better now(thanks in large part to many here) more so than I have in all of the last two or so years since this problem started(on my mission of all places). That is one thing I struggle with; I dedicated myself completely to working as hard as I could on my mission; I never even contemplated the thought of masturbation and controlled any sensual thoughts as well as any “normal” human being could. Then one fateful night my life flipped upside down. I havent been the same since. I dont need a perfect life but I want one without obsessional guilt. That is why I am considering the counselor because if they can provide better relief than my priesthood leadership has then I will be very satisfied.
Whew!!! i needed to read these posts!!! i am a 45 yr old woman. i discovered masturbation around the age of 12 or 13 and NEVER felt guilty at all about it. My mother and i discussed it as a normal function of the body. During those private moments, i would imagine being made love to by a loving husband. to me, it was a sweet experience and it released tons of anxiety.
it wasn’t until AFTER i joined the Church in 1990 that i became consumed with guilt over my sexuality. i became suicidally depressed. Eventually, my 18 yr marriage ended, due in part to my mixed up thinking about sex. I was so repressed and guilt ridden, i could not even have a normal sexual experience with the man i dearly loved.
In 1999, i married again,and he taught me how to feel a love for my body and i began to let go of the heavy, heavy burden of SHAME that made me want to die.
He’s been passed away now for 5 years, and its been literally hell, excuse my language.
i actually will feel a physical pain and heaviness in the groin area. i, like struggling, have had dreams where my body would come close to climaxing, but i’d wake up, and consciously force the feelings away instead of letting go. then, i’d sob. i have realized, as mentioned here, that the more i try to not think about it, the more i think about it, dream about it, and my body screams for that natural release. Sometimes, i can only initiate a deep cleansing cry after climax.
Thank you all SO much for this…i have just thought i was going to go insane or go have an affair or something!
P.S.- i really am calling Xandria….know just what to order, too….hee hee!!!!!
Have fun! I’m sure you will.
Well it has been awhile. Things are a little better. I have not been able to completely abstain but I have been learning to cope with the pain. I recently gave a talk at church on the atonement and everyone thought it was great. All in all I feel like I am improving my mental state. I still have occassional feelings of despair and anguish over doing it but they seem to be becoming less frequent.
That being said I was wondering if anyone knows of some places i.e. books or websites that speak on the mormon views of masturbation both pro and con. Have there been any studies about mormons and their participation in or beliefs regarding it?
Hi Struggling, I only read a historical paper about Mormon theology on the subject.
Because the topic is so encumbered with taboos, it would be difficult to measure how many Mormons masturbate. For theoretical reasons, we should expect though that all Mormon men masturbated at some point of their life. Guys that do not masturbate either have access to sex or are impotent.
Sex is a drive. There is no healthy way to shut it off. The only thing that one can do, is to negotiate it in a responsible manner. In that respect, suppression can be counterproductive.
If I have any worthwhile advice for you at all then it would be to educate yourself about biology broadly. The more you learn about life in all its diversity, the better you will be able to negotiate sex and responsibility.
You can start out with Nature or National Geographic documentaries at your local libraries. One of my favorite books is Chimpanzee Politics: Power and Sex Among Apes, which is totally useless for your narrow question but explores the basic functions of sex in society pretty well.
Don’t believe everything that people tell you, especially not me. Think about the values that you consider important. Relate your knowledge of biology to your values and needs and you are likely to come up with a pretty healthy way of life.
Struggling,
Here is an article about the historical development of masturbation attitudes in LDS culture: Historical Development of New Masturbation Attitudes in Mormon Culture: Silence, Secular Conformity, Counterrevolution, and Emerging Reform. I believe that the two authors of the article are Mormons. It’s a bit lengthy, but very informative.
Struggling, I think most of the men here had the same kind of guilt at one point or another. I agree with Mayan Elephant, though; you have to take control of the issue personally and not look to what others have to say. A stained sheet every now and again is the only real consequence of the act, and that’s no big deal compared to the angst you’re having over the issue.
There are many here that need to learn some self control. Struggling, all you need to do is put your mind to it and decide what it is you really want and you will overcome. Dont listen to this blasphemy.
Truth, please define “self control.” Those of us who see nothing wrong with masturbation rather obviously don’t view the issue as one of self control.
Actually, I view masturbation guilt as a powerful tool that LDS church leaders use to gain control over the teenage members of the church. If you can gain control over the exercise of a powerful natural urge that has no consequences, you can control pretty much everything else about that person too.
How is it a tool to manipulate the teenagers. They are carefully advising the youth to stay away from something that could become an addiction a very strong one at that because of the strong feelings the action induces.
The parents can be very helpful if they would just let their kids beforehand know that it is something they should not do. If they never start than there wont be an issue.
Truth–I don’t accept your underlying premise that masturbation is problematic. Addictive, perhaps, but no more harmful an addiction than diet coke. I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree on the issue.
Truth,
Eating is also potentially addictive and harmful. The proper treatment for eating disorders is not shame or suppression of God-given desires, but rather teaching moderation and removing shame. I don’t see any difference between this and masturbation, except as a result of the Victorian era hysteria surrounding masturbation.
I am no longer going to school and am working out of town; I also will not be attending my old school again and may not be going to school for another year as I advance through the transfer student process. I am not getting any better and have decided I need professional help. I have been searching but nothing seems to be catching my eye.
Are there any counselors I can contact online at a reasonable price. Anyone here have any suggestions. They will be greatly appreciated
Struggling, there are very few psychologists who recommend online counseling. It would probably be better to investigate what might be available in your community. (Options vary greatly from community to community.) A community mental health center would be a good place to start. Online options might be worth examining, but only if there is nothing in your community that offers a ’sliding scale’ fee adjustment.
I am going to chime in. Currently I am working on a research paper for an upper division english course on the religious views of masturbation. I have decided that I want to focus on a specific religion. As I was searching for information I found the study on the cultural attitudes of mormons toward masturbation I was instantly drawn to focus on the mormon church cuz there are very few essays and research papers that deal directly with a specific church.
I do not wish to irritate anybody but I was wondering if someone here could help me out. I browsed through other mormon forums and found most of them to be less than current but this thread seems to still be somewhat ongoing and seems to be the best place to find some support.
With that I have a few questions?
1. Where can I find good sources about the the mormon stance on masturbation?
2. Are there any other research essays or statistics that could be useful similar to that about the cultural attitudes toward masturbation?
3. Also, what are some of the key arguments from a mormon that is pro-masturbation? what offends you about the policy? why do they think it is ok? what do they think the church should do?, change the policy publicly? Discreetly?
That being said I would also appreciate opinion from the other side as well (just switch the above questions around a bit).
4.Should the church do a better job of helping the church going people understand why it is wrong?
5. Has anyone here stopped attending church solely because they do not agree with the mormons on masturbation?
Good sources are encouraged and will be helpful
P.S. this is not going to be an anti mormon paper; just hoping to shed some light on a very taboo subject that most church leaders are over involved in or not involved enought in
Research,
Check this out.
http://www.rethinking-mormonism.com/sexuality/
Has anyone ever stopped attending church because of it? I’m sure some have, but that’s better than the teens who have committed suicide.
Suicide! This is crazy.
I have been reading thorough the cultural attitudes essay and I assume you are referring to Kip. It seems kind of bizarre.
The study by wilford smith is interesting. Surveyed 8584 students and surprising mormon women feel more comfortable masturbating. 64% females said masturbation is not immoral whereas only 57% of males thought so highly of the practice.
However this study is from the 70’s; are there any studies that are more recent?
I am not sure if anyone cares anymore and you all are probably getting sick of me discussing this but I cant seem to find another place to express my feelings and I feel that it is very important; so i continue to do so. If someone could recommend a better place to share my feelings anonymously than I would love to hear your suggestion. just dont tell me to go to my bishop b cuz i have been there done that; i am in need of a true confidant not someone who is apparently afraid to help. It does bother me alot that the first place i turned to for help was the church and all that did was make the problem worse. lower level priesthood leadership felt unsure of themselves and upper level priesthood leadership was condemning. just irritating i suppose because all i wanted was some help. i guess the subject was just too taboo to find any creible information from the ga’s.
After numerous battles during the course of the summer I have decided that masturbation is inevitable. I am beginning to enjoy it for what it is. i feel a lot better about the act and through much study i believe that it is normal and healthy. i still struggle with guilt but it is fading.
My only concern now is that I am unsure of where to turn from here. I truly believe in the big picture that is the restoration even tho i dont agree with every word that is shared by a GA. B cuz of this i do wish to attend the temple and get married there. However, as one may recall i have expressed doubt about a mormon girl being accepting of a masturbator, especially one who thinks that it is ok. I guess what i am trying to say is how in the world do i know if i will be compatible with an lds girl? masturbation is typically not a common dialogue while dating or even before marriage(atleast not in mormondum). I know i will say my prayers. I just feel conflicted. Seriously, i dont want to lead anyone into thinking i am something i am not, although i now find it corny that masturbation should even be an issue, although I have heard of women leaving their man for having masturbated.
Struggling-I have so many thoughts to share. First, I think the best way to describe masturbation is a tempest in a teapot. Yes, it is a tempest for you but it isn’t going to destroy the world. I am not minimizing your struggles but am pointing out that there are so many worse things you could be doing
I am a single LDS girl. I am the type of person who will discuss anything. Even masturbation. A male friend and I just had a conversation about how often he watches porn. Another guy friend explained to me what circle jerk was and how often it was played at scout camp.
I always say that I want a man who masturbates. In my opinion there is something scary about a man who can completely give it up. Of course I am in my 30’s so a man in his 30’s or 40’s….well I would have concern about him having any sex drive at all. Also, I really think it depends on the women you date. If you date someone completely “molly” then you may have some cause to be concerned. If you date someone who has lived in the “real” world not so much cause for concern.
For example, this wouldn’t phase my girl friends who have been divorced. In fact they would joke around that it was a good thing because that meant you would have a release if they weren’t in the mood. Also, if a girl doesn’t understand this then it isn’t a good match for you. Period. And don’t assume that the girls aren’t doing it. Trust me, I think I rival most men. I have a sex drive and no where to go with it. The way I see it this is way better for me to masturbate than have sex. Assuming she believes it is a horrible sin, it also boils down to her belief in the Atonement. Does she believe in it? Then she can’t mad at you for falling short of perfection, especially when you obviously are trying to so hard.
Also, I think sometimes the reason women leave men is much more in depth. For example, is he considerate of her sexually? Does he care about her needs? Or does he just go masturbate because he doesn’t want to take the time to make sure she is fulfilled? Is he into porn? Is that part of it? Does he have unrealistic idea’s of what a woman looks like? Anyone who has seen porn and a real live naked woman knows that is not what women look like. Does he expect her to have boobs that look like that or act like that while having sex? I think that when a woman leaves that masturbation may be the excuse but it is way more intense that that. Also, if it was the masturbation were they willing to get counseling to work through it? Maybe he stops doing it so much and she accepts that he is not going to stop altogether. The reality is that (1) you never know the whole story of why a couple breaks up and (2) just because their marriage didn’t make it doesn’t mean that yours won’t either. Every marriage is so different.
Finally, have you ever talked to a therapist? Not an LDS one, but someone who can help you learn to let the guilt go. I think there are other things worth considering. Are you a good person? Do you love and serve others? Do you treat people with kindness and respect? Do you love God? Are you honest? Do you try to make the world a better place? Those are much more important than how much you masturbate. This has gotten quite long. I hope something I said helps you and that you find peace and comfort in your struggles.
Sunday I taught lesson #17 in SWK. Titled “The Law of Chastity” - it just mentioned masturbation. It also mentioned that we should have no other sexual relations outside of marriage.
I totally skipped it due to time constraints. And personal reasons. Not because I am ashamed of masturbation but why should I condemn something that I believe is not condemned by God.
I am not reasoning it away or excusing it in anyway it is a fact of life and I believe in the “If you don’t use it you’ll lose it” stance.
If we thank of it as a gift of God to personally making love to oneself, then a false sense of shame and anxiety will no longer be.
Thank you for the thoughts.
I have thought about a therapist but it is more of a money issue than anything else. I seem to be doing pretty good at letting go. However, it can be somewhat discouraging because teachers or leaders always seem to bring this subject up either in institute classes or church, which renews the angst. Like this last Sunday EQ and RS mtngs were on the Law of Chastity and obviously this topic magically gets brought up and it makes me feel…well…disappointed in myself. The funny thing is that the topic is so private even for those in favor of the practice that it is almost impossible to have any sort of real intellectual conversation on the matter. However, I just keep telling myself that this really is not that important of an issue.
I also think about the whole struggle all together and the circumstances around my ever starting such a “habit” and I believe that refraining from masturbation would be very unhealthy in my case. I have gone weeks without sleep fighting this and doing all these weird suggestions that leaders give me directly or indirectly through pamphlets and the such and it all builds up to such a point that I would almost have my “sexual release” during mid-day while walking to classes or the worst was on my mission when I would feel like I was going to explode during missionary lessons and not being able to focus at all on the spirit of the lesson; all this without direct manual stimulation.
The other issue here is that while on my mission there could have been no time in my life where I was more dedicated to abstaining or avoiding sexual thoughts or activities. Furthermore my days were always completely planned and scheduled so it is not like I was not busy and being idle. I had never masturbated until the near end of my mission and that seems really quite odd to me. It nearly destroyed me. I thought I would be sent home from my mission cuz I had read the statement that no young man should go on a mission who engages in such an activity. I fell on my knees in some disgusting foreign country bathroom and weeped excessively while expressing the most intimate of feelings with my Father in Heaven and promising never to do it again. After that I tortured myself mentally and emotionally…maybe even physically. I constantly fasted for strength(once for 48 hours), prayed, confessed, memorized scriptures, wore tight clothing, went without sleep to avoid being in bed where the “temptation” was strongest and all the while trying to serve as the EQ president in my singles unit while battling thoughts of failure, inadequacy, and at times suicide.
Maybe I overreacted. I think I did. However, I was just trying to do what the church leaders kept telling me to do. I looked for relief. I read a lot and I read from Miracle of Forgiveness, To the Young men only, talks by Featherstone, some article which may or may not have been from Elder Petersen, my scriptures, skousen books and many more that were not directly correlated to the topic on tab; to what end I am not sure. All I wanted was relief not anxiety. That is what I was searching for. One could argue that I was anxious because I continued in the practice, maybe so, but I fought with everything I had. Every ounce of energy was dedicated to winning this battle every night and after weeks of battling, struggling, enduring, the battle would extend to two fronts as “tension” would infiltrate my daily activities. The funny thing is that I would not even consider myself a “Peter Priesthood” type of guy. Most of my friends were not even LDS but I cant help but feel bad for what those “pristine” mormon children feel when they cannot overcome masturbation or anything that one could logically call an even more grave mistake.
I would hope no one would have to go through what I have gone through for what to me seems to be logically a frivolous issue to anyone who studies it out thoroughly or even without study for that matter.
Then on top of this I could never find adequate scripture references to help explain to me what I did wrong or even clarify what one should do. I have always prided myself on my ability to explain various aspects of the church with scripture (I have had lots of practice on non-lds friends who are members of other faiths). This goes from such issues of policy changes, polygamy, to modern day prophets and even anti mormon presentations both ludicrous and thought provoking. Maybe I did not fully agree with it or proclaim complete understanding on the issues but at least I could find scriptures that would present a more than adequate rationalization as to why the church practiced or adheres to such an idea. Of all the issues that would stump me it was masturbation. I dont believe I will ever find an adequate answer either, other than we need to follow the prophets. Which is a fine response for some but John 7:17 says to practice the doctrine to know if it is of God or not and for me I have walked both roads and have done everything I could think of in order to do the will of the modern day revelators and with that I can say emphatically that I am not gay. My factory is not producing more volume than usual( I never told the supervisor to turn it up, it just happened without my choice or decision in the matter), and I am not heading down the road of pedophilia.
I am a man!, who wants to be happy, find someone to care for and to care for me, a good job to provide for a family, a continual relationship with deity, and all the while find a growing and lasting love between all of the above.
I pray that I will be making the right decisions but I know I will not be perfect and will need to rely on the Atonement. In the end I hope that because of the experiences that I have gone through that I might be able to help someone else who may be even as I…struggling.
Jamie,
I agree with you. If we teach it to be a good thing and a way of expressing appreciation to our Heavenly Father and a way to love oneself that would be a great step in the right direction.
Furthermore it might be of great help to many so that they might have higher self esteem and therfore treat others around them better. Most of the time the reason teenagers treat others badly is because they dont feel good about themselves. Maybe this would help.
Maybe this is a stretch but it is a possibility I would suppose.
Struggling, You seem incredibly sweet, and should be proud of all you have accomplished. You are not, in any way, shape, or form, a bad person, as you seem to believe. To cut to the chase, I think you have a medical condition masquerading as a “moral failure.” Look up “prostatic congestion” in Wikipedia. If you don’t have the money to go to a urologist, there appears to be some other (non-masterbatory) ways of if not relieving, at least temporarily alleviataing your condition. But, I think, if armed with some knowledge about what’s going on in your body, you might be able to convince a bishop (do you know any who are MD’s?) to cut you some slack. Not everyone is alike. We’re not all the same height, weight, hair color, etc. Why should our responses to, uh, you know, be the same? They aren’t. If others have managed to not masterbate that tells you nothing about your own condition, which, it is mostlikely, has more to do with the amount of fluid that your body creates (completely outside of your control) than anything else. Please, relax.
Best of luck. I, like you, spent my youth in a haze of self-incrimination for no good reason. Life is beautiful. The world is wonderful. Live.
Struggling, Here’s a website that gives good, basic information about your prostate.
http://www.realpagessites.com/morganstern/page4.html
It’s physical! It’s not your (or anyone’s) fault.
Thanks for the information. It is good to know how the body works and why I am feeling the feelings that I do. However, I guess I only have 3 options. Cold showers, masturbation, or prostate massage. Well the third is out. I dont like cold showers but i could be a more spiritual person if i negate the natural man and take cold showers thus ridding me of masturbation. jk.
This whole near 3 year period has nearly destroyed me but I am grateful to have had the experience and overcome so that hopefully others will not be abused in such a way. That is my goal. I believe that rather than teaching our children black and white ideals we should be teaching them consequences of action. For example, with sex out of wedlock; there is pregnancy, STD’s, etc. Stealing=potential jail time; cocaine=addiction, and many more I am sure we could come up with. It is like letting your kid decide whether he or she is going to wear a jacket on a cold day. If he/she does not wear the jacket that means they will probably be cold during recess.
This is where I think the leadership in the church could make an improvement. A teenager who has only been told to not have sex and therefore live in complete abstinence is going to be confused when with their boyfriend or girlfriend and finds out that it feels good. Then the guilt kicks in combined with the physical pleasure (this according to a lot of psychologists can strengthen the power of an addiction) and our once happy teenager is now completely confused. That being said one must be careful to give correct consequences and not lie. i.e. masturbation will make you gay. After 3 years, I am sure that i am more heterosexual now than I was before. If a mistake is made than one should not hide from it but just admit the mistake.
“Well son I thought hair would grow on your palms but I am sorry that was not accurate information; you will be ok…” yada yada yada.
That is the beauty of learning. We dont have to feel trapped if we could learn to let go and adapt to the new information that is being made available. I know that many here are probably angry or disappointed with the church but I am still a TBM, somewhat of a liberal, but TBM nonetheless because of my past experiences before the whole masturbation issue. I believe that the church is true but that the people are not and that oftentimes leaders obtain the ability to make decisions for other people and get carried away and mix their own experiences as eternal doctrine rather than looking at the good of the whole group of people who they “preside” over; which is best helped on an individual level. Everyone is different and needs to be taken care of individually and I believe that people are best helped if you teach them consequences so rather than falling over themselves in guilt and shame they understand that A+B=C and therefore I must use C to either do one of the following D, E, or… We dont want them continually delving over past mistakes both big and small. An example is I wish I would have continued playing soccer at the end of high school, I was good and may have been able to get a scholarship. It bothers me that I made that mistake and live with the consequences today like paying for school etc. But, I now accept the consequences and actually use it to fuel me in new pursuits and to never give up on anything that I am pursuing. This would be a much healthier approach to teaching than simple stating 100% truths. In fact the BOM teaches this a lot better than the bible does. (I love the bible but it does tend to be very black and white and easily interpreted in many different ways.)
For example, how would nephi had felt if after killing Laban, all Lehi could talk about was how one should not murder under any circumstance whatsoever. However nephi killed him because it was better that one man perish than have an entire civilization dwindle in unbelief. That scripture alone proves to me that everyones situation is different. I go through this everytime a teacher or leader finds a magical way to bring up the masturbation issue. Thankfully I have come to understand what is right for me and I know the consequences of my actions…nothing.
I have a friend that married immediately upon returning from his mission because he thinks it is his duty to God or something and that he prayed about it and feels that I should receive the same revelation and do everything the exact same way. That is bogus. I have other things I am pursuing in life other than get married and have babies, two things that I want to do eventually, but in the right place with the right person.
Those are just a few of my thoughts; I would be interested to hear what everybody’s thoughts are. I am not trying to change anyone’s opinion just opening up myself and my thoughts to some open conversation so that they can continue to adapt and become more correct.
This is how I plan on teaching my kids about sexuality; with consequences or cause and effect, not with a list of do’s and dont’s. Then I will still love them even if they take on some very difficult consequences.
Dear Struggling; what’s been done to you is unconscionable. People exist along a bell curve. You are at one end. You, you realize, are in danger of actually damaging your prostate if you do what you think that your religious leaders want you to do. I don’t think they want you to physically hurt yourself. Did you say you’re moving? Explain your problem in physical, not moral terms. I think you may be surprised.
Good luck.
Actually, the Book of Mormon does not mention masturbation at all, as I recall. Neither does the D of C nor the Pearl of Great Price. The only place that the Bible mentions it is when Onan spills his seed upon the ground. However, Onan did this in the context of Levitical marriage–He was expected to sleep with his dead brother’s wife, and didn’t want to. Not the same as your situation. As there’s no scriptural support for the current LDS practice, and, it seems, no actual written basis in LDS literature other than a very old pamphlet (1976) your leaders seem to be reading a folk belief (based on late 19th century and early 20th century thought) into their religious practice. What prophet spoke about such things?
To Struggling:
We have a lot in common.
I’m 27, virgin, RM, BIC, professional, college graduate.
If you find yourself compulsively masturbating or you cannot shake the shame, you may want to consider therapy.
Check out this group. It may be for you.
http://www.lifestarnetwork.org/
I did it and it only cost $350 for six sessions. I learned that my masturbation and other problems were really only the symptoms of areas of my life that are out of balance and from legitimate needs that have not been met. In other words, it really wasn’t about the sexual aspect or behavior.
I have had long periods of sobriety since then without the white-knuckling feeling and preoccupation that we are familiar with. My sexual preoccupation has gone down. I haven’t let my occassional masturbation sessions shame me or destroy my self-confidence. The only reason the shame developed around the practice was due to the church. Compulsive masturbation experiences are opportunities to see what is out of balance in my life and fix those things.
As for the church, the church played a major role in perpetuating my masturbation and toxic shame. Even more frustrating, the church played a huge role in my development of same sex attraction. In one singles ward in my area, I know that there at least 15 guys struggling with SSA out of a ward of 200 singles. That number far exceeds the generally accepted homosexuality rate in the general population which leads me to beleive that there is something about the culture and teachings of the church that is CONTRIBUTING to that which they are fighting against. I don’t know what I believe in anymore, but I know that I need to find the middle ground, hopefully within Mormonism, but who knows…
In the words of Aristotle, that which we must learn, we must learn by doing.
As far as I can tell there is no mention of masturbation anywhere in scripture except in statements by GA’s. Of those statements the only one worth noting, in my opinion is the BKP talk “to the young men only” because it was presented in conference. I do believe this would be an easy issue to fix. All they would need to do would be to explain to bishops and stake presidents how the issue should be handled if brought to them via confession. Then a simple statement in a book like True to the Faith, which I believe has helped many overcome their guilt in regard to birth control. I still think it would not hurt to discuss this topic in a priesthood session either, I really dont think that many people would be upset. Whoever gave the talk would have to explain himself simply, professionally, and directly to avoid any confusion. No factory speeches. For the women they could do the same during the Relief Society session, preferrably done by a sister-leader.
I am constantly moving. I am kind of a modern nomad. I go from city to city, job to job, school to school. It allows me to meet a lot of different people and be presented to alot of different ideas and opinions.
Agnes,
When you say focus on the physical nature rather than the morale nature are you saying that is how I should present it to a bishop?
An253185213,
Thanks for the advice. I dont know if I will take the route presented by the website but it is another option. Currently I have learned to deal with guilt and atleast suppress it so to be able to live my life accordingly. As i said before I love the church, I know Christ is our Savior and that His church was established not to bog us down with guilt but to provide us with a haven from the evils of the world and present us with extra opportunities to serve and teach one another. I have lived in mormondum and it can be hard b cuz ppl are just so dog gone critical. Something goes wrong and instantly everyone assumes you are a sinner and did not pay your tithing or something. That was killing me and I had to go. SSA is a difficult issue to deal with. I could not imagine. I also believe that it is hard for many leaders to help members who deal with this issue on a daily basis b cuz they simply dont comprehend how it must be. I wish you the best and it appears you are making the best of it.
I cant help but think that this whole problem I have gone through has been for my good and will allow me to more effectively help others. If I were to become a bishop and a youth comes in confessing masturbation I am going to have a completely different way of taking care of the situation than my bishops did.
I believe that I have finally begun to learn how to live with masturbation. It is not currently overpowering me and I now think about it less. The consistency in the practice may have gone up but I am no longer having huge depressive relapses that put me into trauma or anything of the sort.
Nice to see this post is still getting a little “action.”
Struggling’s struggles call to mind the following quote:
“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”
- author unknown
Own yourself. Own your relationship with God. Nobody — no parent, pope, or prophet — can define what YOU believe or mediate your relationship with God.
re: SSA is a difficult issue to deal with.
As a gay Mormon myself, I completely understand and feel your pain. It is especially difficult for those of us who are striving to remain active in the church. But, the good news is that you are not alone. I am part of a group of gay Mormon bloggers who call ourselves MoHo’s, for Mormon Homosexual - the idea being that we put our religion and belief in God before our attractions.
Feel free to email me privately (an email link is on my blog provile) if you would like to discuss anything or just need a virtual shoulder to cry on.
FWIW, I wrote my own thoughts about masturbation on my blog a couple of months ago.
http://mormon-enigma.blogspot.com/2007/07/m-word.html
Before marriage, do not do anything to arouse the powerful emotions that must be expressed only in marriage. Do not participate in passionate kissing, lie on top of another person, or touch the private, sacred parts of another person’s body, with or without clothing. Do not allow anyone to do that with you. Do not arouse those emotions in your own body.
This is from the for strength of youth pamphlet. I know it definitely implies masturbation. But, seriously…Is this even possible? To not arouse those emotions in your own body? I am sure every guy has had spontaneous erections. These feelings need not be made, they just happen. It can happen with or without stimuli. Do not do anything to arouse the powerful emtoins that must be expressed only in marriage. Sounds good. I guess I will just sit at home and never do anything ever again. This just sounds irrational to some degree. Dont get me wrong, I think this advice is overall pretty good but just too over the top. Maybe I am taking this too literally but how else should one read that.
So, Struggling, how are you doing? I just came across this discussion and have had a lot of empathy for what you’re going through. My story is very similar to the one Tom describes, with too many years of intense guilt as a youth and RM. I completely agree with all the advice given here — that you have to forgive yourself and not see this “problem” as a sin that would disqualify you from feeling worthy or worthwhile in God’s eyes.
The interesting thing is that there are a lot of happy, active, Mormon men who will tell you they have masturbated and it’s no big deal. So why do some of us take on all the guilt?
Ha, I really enjoyed reading this. I have felt for a long time that masturbation was so natural that it just couldn’t be so wrong as the church made it out to be… I mean, all things in moderation, but I think it is a healthy behavior as long as it doesn’t become a life-controlling addiction. Thank you for posting this story!
Oh, and…
“Get a Grip” by Semisonic
I wanted to express my appreciation for everybody’s words of encouragement and introducing me to the blog world. In all honesty this post along with its subsequent comments probably saved my membership in the church and maybe even my life.
Now, I believe that I was taking this thing way too literally and maybe even the whole church too literally. I do not regret my experience and now look back at this whole situation as maybe God’s way of communicating to me to obtain a more realistic approach to the church and how I relate to it. I am much happier now. My conviction toward the church is not as strong, as this whole difficulty led to me investigating other policies, doctrines, and history of the church outside of just human sexuality.
It almost led to me leaving the church entirely but I have found new found faith and hope in the things that I perceive to be good in the church. Some may look at this whole situation as rather sad and think that I have lost my testimony. In a way it is sad for me too b cuz my “Mormon bubble” burst. All I know is that I am happier now.
Again I wish to thank everybody here on the Cultural Hall for you kindness and support. The words expressed here were the exact non-condemning words I needed that helped open my eyes to a new perspective on life (B4 the Cultural Hall I had never heard anybody say that masturbation was okay). Thankfully I don’t have to live for another 20 or 30 more years in order to have this epiphany. I am young, happy, and free to pursue my life’s ambitions and goals.
If anyone wishes they can also follow my new blog where I will attempt to address my “struggling” with the church and my new found path.
Thank You!
Great news, Struggling! And I’m glad this post and its subsequent comments were able to help you. Blogging has certainly helped innumerable people maintain their sanity and church membership, myself included.
At some point everyone’s idealized “Mormon Bubble” will burst. It is just interesting to me to see which of the innumerable metaphorical “pins” will do the trick. For you it appears to be cognitive dissonance re the black/white nature of sin in general, and masturbation in particular. And like everyone else before you, the pain of dissolusion is eventually replaced by deeper understanding and awareness of self/others (and the institutions we participate in) and yes, happiness.
Good luck pursuing your life’s ambitions and goals!
I didn’t know DM’s “But Not Tonight” is about Masturbation. I thought it was about drugs or something…Now Franky Goes to Hollywood’s “Relax” on the other hand…
Struggling,
I have been a masturbating fool since around 14 years old. I am now 38 and I have let the guilt from that almost destroy my life. I have carried this guilt through most of my marriage and it has had a great affect on how I treat others. I wish I had learned to separate myself from this guilt at an early age, but like many, I was being told I was the child of the devil and God could never accept me while I had this problem. I have only now realized I need to release myself from the guilt of it to fix myself.
As far as Kimbal saying that it leads to gayness, this could not be further from the truth. I have never had a sexual thought about another man in my life. If anything masturbating made me a girl crazy freak at a young age. I might be responsible for my slow entry into pornography. What I have noticed lately at that when I masturbate or look at porn, it was because I let myself first become depressed about myself. I have never looked at porn without first feeling this trigger. So, I have opted to not feel as bad about myself and take my progression out of these problems a day at a time.
I had to chime in and give my experience as the wife of a “serial” masterbator… We have been married for 16 years and quite happily so. I never felt the need to masterbate as a teen ( a combo of naivete and YW guilt complex) and I got married at the ripe age of 20. I was always very open to trying anything in the bedroom and we developed a pretty good form of communication regarding all things sexual. I tried not to let the Mormon Church into the bedroom, but all those lessons from YW/seminary just seem to lodge deep in the phyche. I had trouble achieving an orgasm for many years because I could not let ago enough to enjoy myself, even though I knew that sex within marriage was not a sin.
What finally helped me achieve orgasm was masterbation (finally getting a vibrator!!) and finding good sexual information online. This was after 2 kids and seven years of marriage.
My dear husband alluded to his masterbation “problem” many times, but I think I was oblivious to his real needs (i.e. what is he talking about?). It actually took many discussions over the course of many years before we really came to a true understanding of each others sexual needs. I finally came to understand that my husband has a very healthy sex drive. He masterbates quite fequently and he enjoys it, even though we have sex on average 6 times a week (this is the key to happiness women…trust me you get what ever you want from your man!). He still thinks he is a sexual freak, but I think he has a very healthy sex drive and I am constantly trying to reassure him that he is normal. He has also been physcologically damaged by the church in reagrds to the guilt associated with masterbation.
However, we recently had a huge break through and now we both are living guilt free lives. I think we are both going through a sort of mid-life crisis and we have decided that we are done with guilt and shame. We are good people who are doing our best to work, raise kids, have an awesome marriage and serve in the church. Our sex life is our business and no one elses. My husband watches porn while he masterbated and he always has. Even though he knew I knew about the masterabtion, he thought for sure I would freak out about his porn collection. He couldn’t have been more wrong. I think it is the sign of a man who is honest about his sexuality. We are 100% committed to our marriage and our discussions and honesty with each other have only made our marriage stronger. And contrary to what GA’s say, porn has not skewed his view what of what a real woman looks like or led him to commit adultery. IF anything it has opened our lines of communication and led to many ground breaking discussions.
I wish the church would just back off the sex stuff. It’s fine to teach that you should wait for marriage for sex. But, honestly, it is NOT NORMAL OR HEALTHY to suppress your natural sexual desires. Even within marriage there is a place for masterbation by 1 or both parties (sickness, birth of babies, business trips, military deployments, etc). We are both much happier people since we have embraced our true sexual identities.